All the oxygen trapped in a bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#121

Post by kragen » Sun, May 20, 2012, 10:28 AM UTC

cageface wrote: post #111

dave1619 wrote: post #5

I know the guys at 37Signals are a smart pack, but I don't understand their hangup with Instagram and Pinterest... and apparently FB (esp. their older posts). FB has proven to be able to make $billions of revenue and substantial profit, and is only growing. Isn't that proof that an ad-based model can work if it's large enough? Instagram was FB's biggest competitor... huge growth and huge adoption amongst young groups…

Any service that can garner 100s of millions of users can find a way to monetize. I heard people say this a thousand times in 1999. I doubt it's any more true now than it was then.

In 1999 I think they were talking about millions or tens of millions of users, not hundreds of millions. The order of magnitude makes a difference. So does the existence of Google AdSense and its competitors.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#122

Post by kragen » Sun, May 20, 2012, 10:29 AM UTC

crusso wrote: post #94

lmm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably hung up because it's making them look small-time. What do 37Signals actually do, other than generate a steady stream of blog posts for HN? They make some sort of dropbox knockoff, right?

Yeah, DHH invented Rails and has shepherded the project to be a dominant player in the web framework world. Really, you could credit him with all the copycat frameworks like Django as well and a good percentage of the other frameworks that reproduced significant innovations introduced in Rails. He's no Linus, but he was a huge force for technological innovation back in the mid-to-late 200x years and maybe a few weeks…

Leaving aside your sarcasm, Django was more a matter of convergent evolution—it was developed concurrently with Rails and just released slightly later—and both frameworks have copied a lot of awesome innovations from each other.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#123

Post by crusso » Sun, May 20, 2012, 2:54 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #122

crusso wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, DHH invented Rails and has shepherded the project to be a dominant player in the web framework world. Really, you could credit him with all the copycat frameworks like Django as well and a good percentage of the other frameworks that reproduced significant innovations introduced in Rails. He's no Linus, but he was a huge force for technological innovation back in the mid-to-late 200x years and maybe a few weeks…

Leaving aside your sarcasm, Django was more a matter of convergent evolution—it was developed concurrently with Rails and just released slightly later—and both frameworks have copied a lot of awesome innovations from each other.

I don't think that's fair. I really worked hard on the sarcasm part.

About the Django part... yeah, I've heard that said, but the fact is that Rails was first and most of the cool parts of Django are things that they ended up doing like Rails.

Having used both, my opinion is that even today Django didn't understand some of the core ways that Rails was superior so didn't copy the right things. So yeah, Django was around and can sort of claim some concurrency with Rails development and I'm sure it even influenced Rails in small ways.

In terms of leading in a new paradigm, though, Rails did it. Django didn't.

Django is the Ringo of the greatness of the Beatles. Sure, Ringo was there swinging his sticks and even wrote a couple of catchy tunes. Sure, he contributed in his own small ways... but seriously he wasn't the leader and he wasn't the secret ingredient to the band's phenomenal success.

Re: All the oxygen trapped in a bubble

#124

Post by kragen » Thu, May 24, 2012, 8:53 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #123

kragen wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving aside your sarcasm, Django was more a matter of convergent evolution—it was developed concurrently with Rails and just released slightly later—and both frameworks have copied a lot of awesome innovations from each other.

I don't think that's fair. I really worked hard on the sarcasm part. About the Django part... yeah, I've heard that said, but the fact is that Rails was first and most of the cool parts of Django are things that they ended up doing like Rails. Having used both, my opinion is that even today Django didn't understand some of the core ways that Rails was superior so didn't copy the right things. So yeah, Django was arou…

Many of the cool parts of Rails are things they ended up doing like Django, too. ActiveAdmin, say. You might not remember how limited Rails was when it first came out, even though it was still obviously The Right Thing.