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Doom Captcha (2021)

vivirenremoto.github.io

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Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#121

Post by Zambyte »

kqr wrote: post #77
Zambyte wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually ASCII art or just a textual encoding? The art representation is nice for looking under the hood and seeing something pretty, but I feel like that is a very far from optimal way to textually encode Doom for a language model to process. Especially since there is no pitching the camera, you can encode all of the information you need to represent a frame in a single line of ASCII. It they are actually usin…

I never realised you could encode each column of Doom as a single character, but of course you can! I suppose the one thing missing would be distance, but if you get 8 bits per character I you could reserve the upper bits to represent approximate distance. That's weirdly inspiring! What other games can I make where the visuals are conceptually no more than a line of characters, but which can get macroexpanded into im…

Another point to note is that you aren't stuck with a single character to encode a column of Doom as text. You could also do something like a letter to represent the content, followed by a number to represent the distance.

I think the only weird part about that is that certain letter-number pairs may be a single token with some other semantics in the model, and other letter-number pairs would be a pair of tokens. I think that could impact the performance of the model (but probably not by a huge amount).

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#122

Post by internetter »

edpichler wrote: post #96

Amazing. I wish it was claimed to be secure!

I'm not sure it's possible to make secure. To render the positions of the enemies, the browser receives 4 coords. To submit the capcha, the browser submits 4 coords – the same ones it received. Perhaps you could track the variance between the exact position and the position the user selected, as well as timing. But would it be enough?

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#123

Post by Zambyte »

corysama wrote: post #60
Zambyte wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually ASCII art or just a textual encoding? The art representation is nice for looking under the hood and seeing something pretty, but I feel like that is a very far from optimal way to textually encode Doom for a language model to process. Especially since there is no pitching the camera, you can encode all of the information you need to represent a frame in a single line of ASCII. It they are actually usin…

If you just click through the links you’ll see the actual input to the LLM https://twitter.com/SammieAtman/status/1772075251297550457 Nothing you are saying is technically incorrect. But, optimal performance was not the goal. The goal was to see if this crazy stupid concept would actually work. And, it does!

Ah, I think I clicked the actual post link and saw nothing, and backed out. Thanks for the direct link to the video.

And yeah I totally get not aiming for optimal performance. I think it would be interesting to see how a language model could perform with a format that is less visually catered though. Like, textually there is little association between columns, it's just a string of characters, and some of them happen to be newlime characters. A more densely packed encoding would play more into the logic and reasoning encoded into the model, rather than just trying to parse out ASCII art.

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#126

Post by kadoban »

modeless wrote: post #58
kadoban wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doom is still under copyright protection last I knew. The source is GPL, but have the assets ever been liberally licensed? I think they're more abandonware. I'm sure you could still do it, but personally I try to respect copyright strictly for any projects I'm going to share. It just feels annoying to have copyright nonsense hanging over me otherwise.

Well certainly we don't need the full game assets for a captcha. The shareware version would do just fine and that's always been free.

Yeah maybe the shareware, but I'm not sure what the license is on that either.

It's free to play, sure, but is it free to use the assets for whatever you feel like and redistribute on your website? At a guess: no.

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#127

Post by modeless »

kadoban wrote: post #126
modeless wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well certainly we don't need the full game assets for a captcha. The shareware version would do just fine and that's always been free.

Yeah maybe the shareware, but I'm not sure what the license is on that either. It's free to play, sure, but is it free to use the assets for whatever you feel like and redistribute on your website? At a guess: no.

This made me curious, so I looked at the original Doom shareware distributions on archive.org. They do include a license that allows free distribution but prohibits commercial use and generally seems to want you to not do anything other than run the software as designed. Although there are several different versions of the license and I didn't look through all of them, it's possible that some distributions were made with less restrictive licenses.

This surprised me because I thought that id's original shareware releases actually had more permissive licenses than that. Maybe the original Commander Keen did.

I guess maybe id/ZeniMax/Microsoft could theoretically sue you. But in practice the shareware assets are used completely freely without issue all over the internet.

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#128

Post by saasxyz »

I always thought there is a room for mini web games in 2024. Currently no decent site to simply play some little games is a bummer. I would appreciate games like this to play between my coding sessions. And I am obviously not interested in downloading games, I am interested in web native games.

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#129

Post by Lacerda69 »

saasxyz wrote: post #128

I always thought there is a room for mini web games in 2024. Currently no decent site to simply play some little games is a bummer. I would appreciate games like this to play between my coding sessions. And I am obviously not interested in downloading games, I am interested in web native games.

Newgrounds still exists.

But AFAICT there is basically 0 money in browser games now, which is why only romantics and masochists still work on them.

Re: Doom Captcha (2021)

#130

Post by ametrau »

corysama wrote: post #36
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could this possibly be in the training set?

It’s not. The fine tuning taught the LLM how to give single-character responses (move/fire keyboard controls) in response to a sequence of ASCII-art-ized frames of the game being played.

That’s so dang cool
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