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Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

theguardian.com

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Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#121

Post by andrewla »

handity wrote: post #116
andrewla wrote: post #83

As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…

The US has exerted unbelievable pressure to ensure Assange remains a non-threat. Just because they're happy with the current state of affairs doesn't mean Assange has anything to gain by "facing the court and just getting it over with". The best outcome would be for the UK to uphold its own treaties, refuse to extradite Assange, and allow him to walk free. Anything less would be a travesty and miscarriage of justice.…

He will have to be put on trial (by a jury if he so elects) and convicted before he goes to prison; there is no automatic conviction and even if he is refuse bail he will not be in prison.

If the UK refuses to extradite him, then it's a matter of his looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life waiting for the hood and a chopper out. Besides, I have no faith in the UK court' ability to do anything here; they're the ones who have held him without trial or conviction all this time anyway.

I admit that some of my desire here is selfish -- I feel that Assange being tried and acquitted is a greater win for journalism in the US and is worth the risk. Obviously as an individual he does not agree with this (thus his opposition to extradition in the first place).

I do feel that the current status quo is the most favorable in creating the chilling effect that the US national security establishment wants to convey -- Manning and Winner both served their time and are free now; if Assange had been able to foresee what his life would look like now in 2010, he probably would have chosen to turn himself in to the US authorities in the first place, because even were he convicted he'd be free by now.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#122

Post by tptacek »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #45
tptacek wrote: post #38

It's becoming increasingly pointless for the US and UK to litigate this as the time Assange spends in formal custody accrues, mooting any likely potential sentence he'd receive in the US. The WSJ has Assange close to a plea deal that would avoid US custody altogether.

[flagged]

In what sense does Habeas apply here? Habeas isn't a right not to face prosecution, and Assange is incarcerated because he refuses to surrender himself to (two different) courts, not because he hasn't been charged.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#123

Post by woooooo »

austin-cheney wrote: post #115
simiones wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange's team brought evidence that the USA had a kidnapping/assassination plot in case he attempted to flee to Russia. They brought this as obvious evidence that he will not be safe in US custody - they were already willing to kidnap or kill him without a trial. This should prevent his extradition from the UK to the USA, as the UK in principle doesn't extradite prisoners to countries where their safety and UK judic…

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london... From reading that article it doesn't sound like there was any plot. Mike Pompeo wanted such a thing, but it was never approved. It was hotly contested and never attempted. The article also made it sound like Russia had more of a plot in action to move Assange to Russia. So there was about as much plot for the US to kidnap Assange as there was to make Mex…

We did kill that top Iranian general out of the blue under Pompeo's watch, same time frame. So it's hard to say other assassination plots were just hot air and would never be acted out.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#124

Post by tptacek »

bondarchuk wrote: post #70
tptacek wrote: post #38

It's becoming increasingly pointless for the US and UK to litigate this as the time Assange spends in formal custody accrues, mooting any likely potential sentence he'd receive in the US. The WSJ has Assange close to a plea deal that would avoid US custody altogether.

Certainly the difference between a normal UK jail and indefinite solitary confinement with possibility for "enhanced interrogation" in the US is not pointless.

This isn't responsive to the comment I wrote.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#125

Post by southernplaces7 »

bsjaux628 wrote: post #94

[flagged]

>and worked with them to help Trump become president and weaken US democracy by releasing the Clinton emails when he was ordered.

This has become such a tedious point of hate against Assange, and all the more so because it's so badly unfounded, much like the absurdly time-consuming and costly hullabaloo about Trump himself becoming president due to "collusion" with Russia. I suppose the several dozen million people who voted for Trump in the U.S. just can't be viewed as anything more than brainless peons who couldn't have possibly had any sort of personal motive for doing so? They were all brainwashed? Unlike the enlightened voters for the other side?

That the NY Times and other socially elite media organizations couldn't get over the simple truth of so many people that they ignored in turn ignoring these media organizations' supposedly enlightened pronouncements is one thing. That so many other ordinary progressives can't stand the idea is a bit more absurd.

If you need to sink to the level of promoting conspiracy theories, supporting grotesque miscarriages of legal procedure and actively applauding the suppression of evidence inconvenient to your preferred side of the spectrum, you've lost intellectual credibility.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#127

Post by Tomte »

roenxi wrote: post #109
Tomte wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don‘t seem to be aware of the concept of an independent judiciary.

I dunno, is the German judiciary powerful enough to be independent of the US? In theory the entire country has independent sovereignty but it doesn't isn't in a position to exercise it to full effect. It doesn't come up very often, but in physical reality the judiciary's independence rests on the beliefs of a country's police chiefs and generals. The US has a history of just doing what it wants in Europe when it come…

Why do you think extraordinary renditions happen (rarely, but sometimes)? If a German district judge would just read the newspaper, conclude that "America wants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri" and obediently judges accordingly, America wouldn't have gone to all that trouble.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#128

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

throw0101b wrote: post #97
sofixa wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very well might have resulted in the deaths of US officials US spies that knew the risks of their profession.

> US spies that knew the risks of their profession. What about their sources? Multiple human rights organizations criticized the underacted release of information: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39827756

there is something to be said about quoting human rights orgs when the country in question does not agree to hold it's own soldiers and generals accountable under these same orgs

https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_why_america_is_facing_off...

See also the "Invade The Hague Act": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Prot...

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#129

Post by andrewla »

zzz999 wrote: post #117
andrewla wrote: post #83

As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…

> I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. Lol... They would send him in a secret military prison... That would be the worst outcome possible... He should have went where Snowden wanted to go or where he is by accident

Sure, they'll send him to the same secret military prison where they store the UFOs.

Assange is a public figure; if extradited he will have a trial, and if convicted will go to the same federal prisons that all people convicted for federal crimes go to.

The US has engaged in "extraordinary rendition" (many of which we only know about because of Assange). I'm not defending their record here, but Assange is not a candidate for anything like that -- he is a public figure.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#130

Post by phyalow »

austin-cheney wrote: post #115
simiones wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange's team brought evidence that the USA had a kidnapping/assassination plot in case he attempted to flee to Russia. They brought this as obvious evidence that he will not be safe in US custody - they were already willing to kidnap or kill him without a trial. This should prevent his extradition from the UK to the USA, as the UK in principle doesn't extradite prisoners to countries where their safety and UK judic…

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london... From reading that article it doesn't sound like there was any plot. Mike Pompeo wanted such a thing, but it was never approved. It was hotly contested and never attempted. The article also made it sound like Russia had more of a plot in action to move Assange to Russia. So there was about as much plot for the US to kidnap Assange as there was to make Mex…

The plot was exceptionally well advanced and was actively surveiling the equadorian embassy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunstler_v._Central_Intelligen...
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