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Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

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Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#121

Post by parpfish »

salawat wrote: post #31
swores wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find free access to the full paper, but here's the abstract (afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to add to or explain any of it): " The accumulation of metabolic waste is a leading cause of numerous neurological disorders, yet we still have only limited knowledge of how the brain performs self-cleansing. Here we demonstrate that neural networks synchronize individual action potentials to create large-amplitud…

>Chemogenetic flattening of these high-energy ionic waves largely impeded cerebrospinal fluid infiltration into and clearance of molecules from the brain parenchyma. Sounds like unsync'd brain waves, (being awake) impedes cerebrospinal fluid flow through the brain. When asleep, neurons sync their action potentials, acting like a ionized fluid pump, moving old dirty cerebrospinal fluid out, and allowing new, clean in.…

I wonder if these waves also help in “resetting” the distribution of ions among the CSF so neurons will continue to have the proper ion gradients for firing their action potentials?

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#122

Post by jajko »

mad0 wrote: post #111
tombert wrote: post #108

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea about six months ago. Once I started getting treatment for it (losing weight, cutting out caffeine, and an oral appliance) my life started getting dramatically better. I had never taken sleep very seriously prior to that and I feel extremely foolish for it. Life is 100x better if you get an appropriate amount of sleep. Everything becomes a little easier.

How did you recognize that it was sleep apnea? Have you snored at night?

You have dedicated facilities who let you sleep there and monitor you. But apnea can be easily seen, the person has gaps in breathing during some parts of sleep, gasping. Snoring can be one of the symptoms but reverse is not automatically true.

My boss was diagnosed with apnea in his 30s. It was so bad they didn't believe his first test results and had to redo it, off the charts. According to him it literally killed his father. Once he started using the device for sleeping he had 100x more mental and physical energy, everything was just easier.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#123

Post by brandensilva »

samstave wrote: post #45
salawat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chemogenetic flattening of these high-energy ionic waves largely impeded cerebrospinal fluid infiltration into and clearance of molecules from the brain parenchyma. Sounds like unsync'd brain waves, (being awake) impedes cerebrospinal fluid flow through the brain. When asleep, neurons sync their action potentials, acting like a ionized fluid pump, moving old dirty cerebrospinal fluid out, and allowing new, clean in.…

I wonder if this state could be ultrasonically induced to have a "sleep helmet" which can calm and align rhythmic waves? and induce an artificial flush or "power nap" -- Well, thats basically the trope of every Cybernetic design, with the connectors comming out the back of head/spine... Like a continual wash which keeps you in this suspended hyper-aware, but calm, rested and focused mental state. This is why cyborgs…

I wonder if this could help insomniacs. I had some pretty extreme burn out earlier this year that mentally made it so I couldn't sleep. I had to remove as much stress from life as I could and plan an aggressive routine of not working, relaxation, exercise, sleeping exactly on time and personal therapy with my wife to get my mind to shut down at night.

It is pretty grueling how bad it feels to not sleep so a cap like this would at least make it so the build up doesn't kill you from over collecting old fluid excessively.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#124

Post by moffkalast »

robg wrote: post #87

If you have any doubts about sleep quantity and quality, worth reading about the glymphatic nervous system, which is so newly discovered likely you didn’t learn about it in school. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4636982/ In short it explains, mechanistically, why poor sleep affects daily cognition, mental health, and age-related declines. Robust scientific theories explain more of the evidence. The glym…

I wonder if eventually once this is more thoroughly researched there could be a way to induce constant cleaning instead of having to do it while unconscious at night? Or at least reduce the hours required. If we could solve this we could just stay awake perpetually and instantly gain a 30% longer lifespan as it were.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#125

Post by dartos »

zarathustreal wrote: post #119
infecto wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something? 2015 for a paper feels relatively new enough that people might not know about it and it might not be in school books.

[flagged]

Does this comment have nothing to do with the thread, or are we missing something?

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#127

Post by tombert »

mad0 wrote: post #111
tombert wrote: post #108

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea about six months ago. Once I started getting treatment for it (losing weight, cutting out caffeine, and an oral appliance) my life started getting dramatically better. I had never taken sleep very seriously prior to that and I feel extremely foolish for it. Life is 100x better if you get an appropriate amount of sleep. Everything becomes a little easier.

How did you recognize that it was sleep apnea? Have you snored at night?

I was snoring, and in my case my wife told me there would be moments of kind of disturbing moments where I would stop breathing and then gasp multiple times a night.

In my case, I was able to take a sleep test from a doctor which was basically just a pulse oximeter I wore while sleeping.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#129

Post by Culonavirus »

infecto wrote: post #116
Hrun0 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is so newly discovered It says that it was published in 2015, or am I missing something?

Am I missing something? 2015 for a paper feels relatively new enough that people might not know about it and it might not be in school books.

People learn in school, then after they estabilish their career, they have kids and other interests and this and that and they get intellectually stuck. Don't grow. Don't learn new things in their field of (supposed) expertise... I see this ALL THE TIME. Now if middle aged programmer refuses to learn new things, it's annoying to work with them, but you'll survive. If a middle aged physician refuses to learn new things, you're kinda fucked. Sadly, the amount of physicians out there who don't keep improving is pretty large given the importance of their job. Yes, the "pretty large" part is mostly anecdotal - my experience and experiences of my friends and family - but if I see the stuck programmers in my field, I'm pretty convinced there must be quite a few of the stuck physicians.

So yeah, 10 years in medicine? Seems like a brand new paper to me. I expect that knowledge to bubble its way to your average physician some time around 2040.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#130

Post by Solvency »

feverzsj wrote: post #110

In case you didn't know, sleeping on your right side maximizes the clearance effect, while sleeping on your stomach minimizes it.

And yet sleeping on your back contributes to snoring and sleep apnea.

Humans. Just can't win can they.

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