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Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#121

Post by CaptainMarvel »

Vinnl wrote: post #107
CaptainMarvel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. This is a stark realisation that I have had over the past few years. I would once staunchly recommend iPhones for their strong security, in particular app isolation, on-device AI, and physical device security. However, over the years there have been more and more instances where Apple decides what I can do with my phone. From restricting APIs to give their first-party apps advantage, to, most recently, not h…

I assume you're aware and have some other reason that disqualifies it (e.g. you're in the US), but Fairphone does exist and comes pretty close (i.e. PostmarketOS is supposed to run, at least): https://www.fairphone.com/

Thank you. I did actually come across this a few weeks ago as I semi-regularly search for new phones in my despair!

It is the closest phone to what I have been after for a while. I particularly like their long software support and their support for right-to-repair. It runs stock Android, however I'm not sure whether that means Google is still fully entrenched into all aspects of the phone by default including through Play Store APIs, notifications, etc.

(If anyone would shed some light on the software side, I would appreciate it because I'm not familiar with modern Android.)

Even if it were suitable I would not be in a position to buy it for a while, hence I am still plodding along with my iPhone but just keeping an eye out for good alternatives.

Edit: I re-noticed you said it runs postmarketOS. That's awesome and I'll need to look into it - I know very little about it. Though it seems many aspects of the hardware are not supported on even the Fairphone 4.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#122

Post by peoplefromibiza »

overstay8930 wrote: post #61
asdp9iujaspid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worried if they ever allowed unsigned apps to run I see this stance often - Do you mean worried for the wellbeing of the easily manipulable (e.g. children) on the platform, Or worried for the quality floor more generally? The former has an argument, the latter does not in my opinion. Even then while I welcome a requirement for apple to notarise apps for regular install (particularly as a means to verify the source)…

I worry about my family both young and old who all had adware and malware ridden Android phones before I got them iPhones. The vast majority of people use smartphones against their will and have no desire to learn anything about the magical Facebook machine in their hands. They press buttons and things happen, who cares what the dialog box says, they press the button that will get them doing what they want to do the…

> who all had adware and malware ridden Android phones before I got them iPhones.

In all fairness nothing changes. You are happy with the store? Stay on the store!

But I am an adult, a developer with 25 years of experience and enjoy hacking.

It is my right to pretend from Apple to let me install whatever I want on the device I bought and own 100% and to not be patronizing.

Put the damn setting somewhere hard to activate accidentally and require triple authorisation if it need to be, but stop playing games.

Thanks

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#123

Post by rsynnott »

nottorp wrote: post #72

As an Apple customer in the EU, I'm staying on iOS 17.3 until they rewrite 17.4 4-5 times based on how many times they get fined again for malicious compliance.

Realistically, if Apple is determined to fight this, it may drag on for years.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#124

Post by EMIRELADERO »

eastbound wrote: post #113
andersa wrote: post #93

What the hell is going on at Apple? It's starting to become really funny to see one obviously non-compliant malicious compliance attempt being made after another. Do they really not understand that they're no longer involved in the relationships between users and developers?

At this moment, I’m really scared that the EU might not react.

Why wouldn't they? There's an EU-ran Apple DMA compliance workshop on the 18th this month[1] which I suggest anyone interested listen to. Stakeholders will be able to voice their concerns and there will no doubt be many, mostly about the Core Technology Fee which is non-compliant per se.

How do I so surely know that? Because Article 6(7), the one that forces free-of-charge OS access for developers, is the only piece of the DMA being proactively challenged in EU court by Apple even before the compliance deadline passed[2].

[1] https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/events-poolpage/app...

[2] https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&do...

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#125

Post by pbhjpbhj »

paulcole wrote: post #103
andersa wrote: post #93

What the hell is going on at Apple? It's starting to become really funny to see one obviously non-compliant malicious compliance attempt being made after another. Do they really not understand that they're no longer involved in the relationships between users and developers?

They are deeply involved. If it’s that bad for developers, drop the iPhone and develop solely for Android. Developers need the iPhone and Apple needs developers.

Isn't it that software developers need hardware, and Apple seek to use their position to prevent developers enabling users on their (the user's) hardware without paying a large fee to Apple. Apple already got paid a large fee as manufacturer though

Put another way: Devs don't need iPhones, they need users to have freedom to install the apps they choose to on the computing devices those users own; regardless of the three manufacturers of those devices.

I wonder how this all works for Nintendo wrt the Switch?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#126

Post by EMIRELADERO »

concinds wrote: post #98
Etheryte wrote: post #84

The terms and conditions for web distribution [0] are concerning to say the least. In short, you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iOS to even qualify, in addition to other terms such as "good standing in the Apple Developer Program for two continuous years or more". I doubt Epic and the like would be considered in good standing as far as Apple is concerned. Also, quote unquote, developers…

In other words, you're only "eligible" for web distribution if you meet the threshold to pay the Core Technology Fee tax? (on top of the other requirements). Sounds convenient.

Conveniently non-compliant.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#127

Post by EMIRELADERO »

usrusr wrote: post #95
markus92 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one million requirement is where you start paying them the 50cts per install, right?

An interesting perspective, makes it surprisingly fair play and totally crippling to third parties at the same time. I guess the outcome will be that outside some completely irrelevant oddballs there will just be one or two entities like Epic serving the intersection of non-casual gamers and people who consider the iPhone a gaming platform and they won't pull much market away from Apple, but serve as a limiter to how…

No, the outcome will be that the EU rightfully fines them an examplary amount for this non-compliant farce of a plan.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#128

Post by concinds »

andersa wrote: post #93

What the hell is going on at Apple? It's starting to become really funny to see one obviously non-compliant malicious compliance attempt being made after another. Do they really not understand that they're no longer involved in the relationships between users and developers?

Don't overcomplicate it. They want to preserve their Services revenue, because Tim Cook is a bean-counter and wants to maintain the profit margin. "After Steve" by Tripp Mickle provides some background.

Many Apple indie devs and fanboys are literally screaming. I bet many people @Apple are too. There are so many things the company could do to regain geek-cred. Package manager and windowing on macOS. Align Mac App Store policies with the more liberal Windows 11 Store policies. Let people run what they want, even outside the EU, including other web engines. Invest in Proton so old Windows games can run on Mac (but then, no App Store tax). Keep OpenGL and Vulkan around for the scientific computation folks (and others). Commit to keeping Rosetta2 around indefinitely, because compatibility is your #1 job as a platform. Open-source more stuff (god forbid, your OSes! why not?).

But they've gotten timid and conservative. Top execs see risk, and VPs seem to think they're making products only for the stereotypical technophobic grandpa, rather than power users.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#129

Post by jcfrei »

CaptainMarvel wrote: post #102
shinryuu wrote: post #75

> Web Distribution, available with a software update later this spring, will let authorized developers distribute their iOS apps to EU users directly from a website owned by the developer. iPhone users don't really own their own device, do they...

I don't. This is a stark realisation that I have had over the past few years. I would once staunchly recommend iPhones for their strong security, in particular app isolation, on-device AI, and physical device security. However, over the years there have been more and more instances where Apple decides what I can do with my phone. From restricting APIs to give their first-party apps advantage, to, most recently, not h…

Yup, this is the choice: Either a walled garden run by Apple that has a price premium. Or a discounted device by Android that allows Google to snoop on all your data if you want to use a single one of their services (App Store, Gmail, Google Maps) - and correct me if I'm wrong but without play services enabled an Android is not really usable. I rather pay the premium.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#130

Post by ensignavenger »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #125
paulcole wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are deeply involved. If it’s that bad for developers, drop the iPhone and develop solely for Android. Developers need the iPhone and Apple needs developers.

Isn't it that software developers need hardware, and Apple seek to use their position to prevent developers enabling users on their (the user's) hardware without paying a large fee to Apple. Apple already got paid a large fee as manufacturer though Put another way: Devs don't need iPhones, they need users to have freedom to install the apps they choose to on the computing devices those users own; regardless of the th…

Th DMA was written explicitly to target a small group of mostly American tech companies, while excluding others like Nintendo.

Traditionally, console manufacturers have lost money on hardware, and made it up in license fees for software and accessories. It is a bit more complicated in reality, and I think that situation should change, but the DMA as currently written won't have any impact on it.

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