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WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

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Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#121

Post by concinds »

sabellito wrote: post #59
concinds wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may dislike it, but EU law only applies in the EU; it sounds like full compliance to me, not "bad faith" compliance. Messaging-interoperability is the one aspect of the DMA I don't support. These apps are free to download; and if you care about security (and use Signal) you'll want to avoid cross-service messaging anyway.

Why don't you support it? There are government services that use whatsapp in my country. This argument "just don't use it" is very tired. Interoperability can be achieved with E2E encryption.

> Interoperability can be achieved with E2E encryption.

On paper yes. But I wouldn't trust it.

https://www.wired.com/story/whatsapp-interoperability-messag...

> There will also be the option, Brouwer says, for third-party developers to add a proxy between their apps and WhatsApp’s server. This, he says, could give developers more “flexibility” and remove the need for them to use WhatsApp’s client-server protocols, but it also “increases the potential attack vectors.”

--

> There are government services that use whatsapp in my country. This argument "just don't use it" is very tired.

I'm saying I wouldn't trust or use interoperability. If something/someone is on WhatsApp I'd do it through WhatsApp. Doesn't mean I can't use Signal with all those who use that.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#122

Post by jddj »

jraph wrote: post #36
PandaBear123 wrote: post #18

> 7.5.1. Partner User Location. Any Partner Users that Partner Enlists or provides access to the Interoperable Messaging Services must be located and remain in the EEA. Without limiting Section 11 (Warranties), Partner represents and warrants that it will only (i) Enlist and (ii) enable access to the Interoperable Messaging Services by Partner Users that Partner independently validates are located in the European Eco…

And that they are reluctantly complying in bad faith in the most hostile way they found. Is this going to fly? Where do these 60 days come from for instance? How is it any useful and who is going to want to implement such interoperability under such terms? This reads like a lot of words to say Fuck You Europe to me. Well, feelings are mutual, at least we are on the same page, them and me.

You tend to see similar terms around the "fair use" of free EU roaming.

Some of them even threaten back charges if it turns out you used more data abroad than at the home country over a long enough period.

I called their bluff once and got away with it, but their systems may have improved since then

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#123

Post by adhvaryu »

nottorp wrote: post #38
pillusmany wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally have an option in WhatsApp do disable loading of audio/image/video.

Oh yes, it's there, thanks. I wonder when they added it... Edit: Waaait a bit. I have it on iOS and I have it on some laptop where whatsapp desktop is an old version. I can't find it on my desktop where their desktop app is the latest and greatest... They probably "improved my whatsapp experience". Edit 2: besides, that just doesn't download the photos, I think? They still take half the screen that could be used for…

The option to disable auto download has been there since day 1.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#124

Post by nottorp »

lxgr wrote: post #91
nottorp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless they have it in their phone’s contacts Lol. Why should they be allowed to associate my phone with my signal handle even then. If i want them to know I'll tell them. > a new privacy setting to limit who can find you by your phone number on Signal Double lol. Limit is not disable. How about an option to "do not give my phone number to anyone, no matter what reason to pass it around you make up this week"? And…

As far as I can tell, "limit" will soon mean "disable". They just can't flip that switch yet given that legacy clients will not know what to do about "numberless contacts". > do not get my phone number period I'd also like that, but they apparently use phone numbers as a primary key for account recovery and identification (e.g. on a new device without the old one present), so that's probably very hard to change archi…

> There are some interesting concepts of "identityless messengers"

Like... icq... yahoo messenger... old skype... ?

And even some modern mobile chat apps i think.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#125

Post by southerntofu »

concinds wrote: post #48
jraph wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that they are reluctantly complying in bad faith in the most hostile way they found. Is this going to fly? Where do these 60 days come from for instance? How is it any useful and who is going to want to implement such interoperability under such terms? This reads like a lot of words to say Fuck You Europe to me. Well, feelings are mutual, at least we are on the same page, them and me.

You may dislike it, but EU law only applies in the EU; it sounds like full compliance to me, not "bad faith" compliance. Messaging-interoperability is the one aspect of the DMA I don't support. These apps are free to download; and if you care about security (and use Signal) you'll want to avoid cross-service messaging anyway.

EU law only applies in the EU, but an actor who doesn't respect EU law outside of the EU may be refused business in the EU. I agree the precedents are not strong to propose an outright ban (eg. Coca Cola murdering trade unionists and forest defenders in South America) but it would perfectly make sense on paper.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#126

Post by nottorp »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #112
nottorp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, it's there, thanks. I wonder when they added it... Edit: Waaait a bit. I have it on iOS and I have it on some laptop where whatsapp desktop is an old version. I can't find it on my desktop where their desktop app is the latest and greatest... They probably "improved my whatsapp experience". Edit 2: besides, that just doesn't download the photos, I think? They still take half the screen that could be used for…

> I wonder when they added it... At least 7-8 years. Probably from whenever it became possible to send media messages.

Does not work on any version of whatsapp desktop, even the ones that have the option present. I still get all the crappy gifs in my chats.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#127

Post by concinds »

concinds wrote: post #48
jraph wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that they are reluctantly complying in bad faith in the most hostile way they found. Is this going to fly? Where do these 60 days come from for instance? How is it any useful and who is going to want to implement such interoperability under such terms? This reads like a lot of words to say Fuck You Europe to me. Well, feelings are mutual, at least we are on the same page, them and me.

You may dislike it, but EU law only applies in the EU; it sounds like full compliance to me, not "bad faith" compliance. Messaging-interoperability is the one aspect of the DMA I don't support. These apps are free to download; and if you care about security (and use Signal) you'll want to avoid cross-service messaging anyway.

Actually I forgot about iMessage. It’s the only service where forced interoperability makes sense (because you can’t “just download an app”, you’re locked out of the service unless you buy an Apple device), and yet it was excluded. Hopefully the EU changes the law so it applies to iMessage.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#128

Post by ranguna »

Vinnl wrote: post #119
the_gipsy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix has WhatsApp interop that works excellent. It somehow uses the web client, which I imagine could be replaced by real interop.

You can't uninstall WhatsApp that way though. Not just the web client, but also the app on your phone, which the web client proxies everything through.

The Web client doesn't need the app anymore, at least it works without having your phone on. You have to relogin every once in a while though.

Re: WhatsApp Messaging Interoperability

#129

Post by justoreply »

concinds wrote: post #127
concinds wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may dislike it, but EU law only applies in the EU; it sounds like full compliance to me, not "bad faith" compliance. Messaging-interoperability is the one aspect of the DMA I don't support. These apps are free to download; and if you care about security (and use Signal) you'll want to avoid cross-service messaging anyway.

Actually I forgot about iMessage. It’s the only service where forced interoperability makes sense (because you can’t “just download an app”, you’re locked out of the service unless you buy an Apple device), and yet it was excluded. Hopefully the EU changes the law so it applies to iMessage.

in Europe very few people are using iMessage, most of them are using Whatsapp
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