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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#121

Post by hmcq6 »

nsguy wrote: post #61
hmcq6 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfounded. I'm still waiting on a single shred of evidence to drop about the AP building from 2-3 years ago https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe... > Which unfortunately means prohibitions on bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship are now obsolete. Even if Hamas was fighting from hospitals and schools that is not how this works. Israel would be required to give those schools…

Israel has ordered hospitals to evacuate, e.g.: https://healthpolicy-watch.news/who-calls-for-israel-to-resc... I think you're generally wrong on the "they have not been doing" comment. Israel has been giving warnings, and those warnings were intentionally being ignored to maximize the damage to Israel's reputation. But if you have some comprehensive data here I'd be interested in seeing it. From my observation the p…

I didn't say that Israel has never ordered an evacuation. I pushed back on the commenter who stated that finding a militant in a hospital or school makes it a valid target.

> From my observation

Well from Human Rights Watches observation:

> Human Rights Watch has not been able to corroborate them, nor seen any information that would justify attacks on Gaza hospitals. When a journalist at a news conference showing video footage of damage to the Qatar Hospital sought additional information to verify voice recordings and images presented, the Israeli spokesperson said, “our strikes are based on intelligence.” Even if accurate, Israel has not demonstrated that the ensuing hospital attacks were proportionate.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-ho...

> I don't think

Again, giving a warning doesn't make it ok to bomb a school. Notice how the HRW quote mentions the attack not being "proportionate"? That's why I seek advice from the experts.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#122

Post by jncfhnb »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #105
jncfhnb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules of war are completely out the door when one side routinely pretends to be civilian, which is a war crime. Which is not to say it’s just to go committing whichever crimes you want, but discussing legal rights is largely pointless because it is immediately a lawless war.

It is not the first war in which the "good guys" as posthumously determined by us, were disguising themselves as civilians, out of necessity. Multiple resistance groups in WWII to draw inspiration from. I don't know of anyone who would look at the SS/Wehrmacht retaliatory punishment of the nearby civilian population and think, "oh well, that's totally justified due to those pesky resistance groups".

There’s no good guys here. But the broader contextual framing is Iran vs the west imo.

Hiding among civilians may be a necessity to their military objectives. But it does mean that many civilians will be killed. And the reality is that most of this is driven by offensive Iranian geopolitical aims.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#125

Post by hersko »

dang wrote: post #14
McNutty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. This platform for tech news should not become a place for political posts, nor even for posting regular news headlines. Yes we know that reddit sucks but stop trying to make hn into reddit. Also the community can't handle it, just look at the handful of comments we already have here.

HN's standard about this question has been stable for many years: some stories with political overlap are both inevitable and in keeping with the mandate of the site. The question, when it comes to the biggest political topics, is which stories clear that bar. I've posted about this many times, including quite a few explanations specific to the current topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 (Feb 2024) h…

Hey Dang, huge fan of HN.

How do you reconcile HN's political neutrality and the fact that almost every overtly political story that hits the front page about certain subjects[1] are blatantly biased on one side?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#126

Post by ethanbond »

ninininino wrote: post #108
ethanbond wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is. How many journalists did the US kill in 20 years of OEF/OIF?

> The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is. No it doesn't? Just searched the International Criminal Court's English document on war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity for 'journalist' and found no results. https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/Publications/Ele...

1. Onus doesn’t mean legal requirement. Civilized nations can be, should be, and generally are held to standards far exceeding legal statutes.

2. They DO have an actual legal obligation to protect journalists as well, try searching for “civilian.” If they are targeting journalists (read: civilians) that would obviously be illegal.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#127

Post by zizee »

addicted wrote: post #73
hmcq6 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bad explanation because it relies on an assumption about how the press in Palestine are operating on the ground and I'm guessing no one on hackernews actually has that info. We don't know that reporters are rushing into danger or hanging out where the danger is going to be. In fact, a lot of the "reporters" who we've been watching were never war reporters to begin with. Motaz, for instance was an aspiring tr…

This has also been one of the deadliest wars for civilians in general. Also when you’re using such a loose definition of journalist obviously the deaths would be greater.

Are you saying this war has a higher civilian casualty ratio that other wars? Sadly history shows that civilians have been casualties of war at high rates compared to combatants.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#128

Post by tekla »

phone8675309 wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% would be considered an extremely high death rate for soldiers involved in the fighting. Even 2.5% for healthcare workers is ridiculously high. Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. That makes comparing casualty rates incredibly difficult. (To my knowledge, nobody else has done this so comprehensively. Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. Which unfortunately…

> Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. This has not stopped the IDF

As it turns out, you can't say everyone is a noncombatant in an area, and then place combatants there and think everyone is ok with that.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#129

Post by henry2023 »

js4ever wrote: post #104
henry2023 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why so many people defend the Israel genocide. Everyone I meet offline including Israel born Jews are accusing their own government of genocide.

30k dead (from Hamas source) including at least 10k terrorists over a population of 2.2M is nowhere close to a genocide. Only hamas supporters are claiming it's a genocide.

Half of that population was already displaced and lack basic services such as food, shelter, and electricity.

Israel even goes to bomb civilian shelters because why not. I’m glad you’re not being targeted by any genocide but if you would. I’d stand for you.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#130

Post by jncfhnb »

eeeehhh wrote: post #89
jncfhnb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules of war are completely out the door when one side routinely pretends to be civilian, which is a war crime. Which is not to say it’s just to go committing whichever crimes you want, but discussing legal rights is largely pointless because it is immediately a lawless war.

No, one side of a conflict cannot ignore the rules simply because the other side does. It also seems an especially poor argument when one side is a nuclear-armed, highly modern military power and the other a lighltly armed militia.

Not ignore, no. But the bar for holding one accountable for collateral damage changes. Considering, for example, the staggering scale of tunnels that have been built to funnel military supplies through civilians areas; clearing operations to destroy these areas entirely feels defensible. When a hospital is used as an arms hub, it is incredibly complex and costly to try and seize it by encirclement and small arms siege versus just blowing it up. This is a very difficult situation.
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