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Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

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Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#121

Post by mpol »

Lutger wrote: post #46
drooopy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the rise of far right populist parties, Europe tends to lean more on the left side of the political spectrum compared to America, and corporate worship is a relatively new thing over here. People tend to have more faith in governments and treat companies with more distrust, compared to the US which seems to be the other way around.

For some definition of left. The interesting thing about the article is that all this EU regulatory control over corporations is in fact deeply capitalistic and the very reason for its existence, and in the corporations interest. Which is not what most EU citizens would consider being on the left of the political spectrum. The idea is: we need regulation to shape the market where businesses can compete freely to the…

Now you are twisting words :)

Capitalism is like a cancer, it will grow endlessly and will become feudalism. Socialism is the government applying rules to capitalism, so it doesn't get out of control.

US policy of neo-liberalism is growing in Europe too, which is giving problems.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#123

Post by ta1243 »

kitsune_ wrote: post #69
bengale wrote: post #55

"They were behaving like Elon Musk. And we certainly don’t want more Elon Musks in the world." I'm not a fan of his behaviour on Twitter, but the idea that the world does not want more Elon Musks seems insane to me. Theyre not for me personally, but whatever you think about Teslas I don't see how you would not want a person who can build a new car company. Just look at other entrants like Rivian, it's so hard, and he…

Insane is a bit of a strong word, no? If Musk was a visionary he would have built trains, not cars.

We have trains, lots of them, all sorts, from 350kph intercity trains to flywheel powered ones the size of a bus. Some are driven and crewed by guards, some are driver only, some are fully automatic.

What could he bring to the world of trains?

When Musk got involved in Tesla, the idea of an electric car was laughable.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#124

Post by ETH_start »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

>EU citizens haven't been brainwashed into thinking that their government is their enemy

The government is the most powerful entity in society. If brainwashing is to happen, it's almost certain to be done by the state and its allies.

The last 80 years is a history of growing government power and public agreement with the narrative that expansive government control is good:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long...

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#125

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

paulsutter wrote: post #48
mjburgess wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". Since we have so many consumer protections, much of how we end up engaging with the law around business practices is to our benefit . We're always aware we can raise bad business practices with an ombudsman (etc.). So our lived experience of government regulation is, in large part, positive…

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

Just install some browser extension that automatically refuses them.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#126

Post by Jochim »

paulsutter wrote: post #48
mjburgess wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". Since we have so many consumer protections, much of how we end up engaging with the law around business practices is to our benefit . We're always aware we can raise bad business practices with an ombudsman (etc.). So our lived experience of government regulation is, in large part, positive…

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

It's a wonderful reminder of who is trying to spy on me.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#127

Post by [deleted] »

dangus wrote: post #96

I think the one place where the author is mistaken is in the incentives for these big tech companies. I think they fully understand what the EU is about. If Apple can delay for a month or a year on giving the EU what they want it’s very unlikely that any fine is going to be a net negative for them. One more month of the App Store pulling in its Monopoly money is a huge amount of revenue for Apple. One more month of F…

[deleted]

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#128

Post by addicted »

paulsutter wrote: post #48
mjburgess wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". Since we have so many consumer protections, much of how we end up engaging with the law around business practices is to our benefit . We're always aware we can raise bad business practices with an ombudsman (etc.). So our lived experience of government regulation is, in large part, positive…

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

Now consider an alternative website which does not track you and therefore does not have to show a cookie warning each time.

Even in its worst form, the cookie warning is giving a significant material advantage to the non tracking website over the tracking website, which without the cookie warning the 2 websites would have appeared exactly the same to all users.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#129

Post by MarcusE1W »

toenail wrote: post #42
redwood wrote: post #15

I understand where the author is coming from and It is important to have a realist perspective on what is driving European strategy or else we will be in denial. I think it's also important to recognize that the west are interconnected in many real ways beyond economic. The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella which allows the EU to invest on other things instead of defense. Another…

> The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella Defense has to be believable, a 50/50 bet that treaties will be honored in the future isn't. All that debt fueled spending doesn't mean a lot.

As a European I always have mixed feelings when this comes up. First things first, the European NATO members signed a contract to use 2% of GDP for defense and some are not doing that. Not right, they have to honor their agreements.

But then why is the US spending so much more than the 2% ? I feel that by and large that Europe and mostly the EU tries to have international influence via commerce. (Trade agreement/or not, customs, economic pressure, regulation, that sort of thing).

When you look at the US then in some instance you can't help but thinking that the military is another arm to execute international influence in the world. For that it might make sense to have a large military budget. If that's not your way of making politics, and let's be honest no European country could even do that if they wanted, then it is also less interesting to have a large army in excess of what has been agreed (the 2%)

All of that also with the view that probably most people are shocked that it is actually possible to have an actual war in Europe again. This was unexpected and most people thought, we have enough weapons to deter any attacker. let's leave it there. And in fairness that still holds. The 2% seem to be about right to have a useful deterrent for an attack.

So in Europe (despite how it looks now with the Ukraine war) a big army was seen less useful and when the Americans say they have to hold a defense umbrella then they are probably right with regards to nuclear defense.

But for the rest the Americans seem to have their own motives to have a large army that goes beyond defense and then it feels a bit strange to hear that America has to pay for a big Army because the Europeans don't do it (except the Europeans really should stick to 2%). As the Europeans have less incentive/possibility to use their military for anything else but defense whereas the Americans do.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#130

Post by myaccountonhn »

> But the single market is what it’s for. Without it, the EU would cease to exist. To understand what motivates EU, as an organisation, you need to understand the single market

The author writes that really the only point of the eu is to be a single market, but that’s not true.

It has other goals, well stated in its principles and values, in which one is “establish an internal market.”

It’s important because it’s a common right wing talking point where I live in the EU. The right wing use it as an argument for making EU weaker, because they think that it “has moved away from its original purpose, to be an economic union.”. No, its stated aim and values are not just that but many other. The author seems to make an argument the other way around, that it is only an economic union; there is a disconnect and both parties are wrong. It is not just an economic union and its stated goal was never to just be one.

I also take issue with the claim that EU thinks an all-seeing surveillance state is a good thing. They recently repelled the chat control law proposal, and I know they consistently condemn Swedens surveillance for being too intrusive. This just doesn’t match with what he is saying.

But I digress. It's important to realize that if you only understand eu in terms of a market without its other values, then you as a company might be working against their stated goals and be punished for other reasons. The author is far too reductionist.

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