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New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

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Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#121

Post by maxehmookau »

hef19898 wrote: post #91
maxehmookau wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, "ripped off" might be an unfair description. They are using manipulative techniques to extract as much profit from dealing with me as possible. I understand that it's their job. But as a consumer, I _hate_ it and therefore would consider spending more money to avoid the uncomfortable feeling dealing with a car dealership gives me. That's the value for me and I'm certainly not alone in that.

You are aware, that if someone manages to get you pay more by not having to deal with a sales person, it is them who are rippong ypu off? Quite literally at that.

I understand your point but I disagree.

They're providing me with, in my eyes, a premium product. "Come buy a car without the dance. Here's the price. Give us money, I'll give you a car. No strings."

I'll pay extra for that. I'll never win against an experienced salesperson, so why bother even trying?

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#122

Post by maxehmookau »

firstbabylonian wrote: post #95
dod9er wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...who enjoys the process of going to a car dealership and doing the awkward dance of trying not to get ripped off. This. The point is, once you are old enough and have heared enough success-stories of extroverts going full "Grand Bazaar"-Style... you are just frustrated if you know that you are going to loose against all these dark-patterns. There´s a reason why they can buy italian soccer-teams without really "pr…

Clean, sensible, introverted living is overrated. There's something deeply human in the whole 'awkward dance'. Not everyone is born a great dancer, but this doesn't mean that dancing is a stupid and pointless activity. People have been trading with one another (and often tricking or getting tricked in the process) for millennia. The 'Grand Bazaar' you evoke stands for something timeless — a promise of wealth earned w…

But dancing is fun. The act of dancing evokes joy, and happiness for people.

For most people, buying a car is a chore. I'm not here to be negotiated with. Give me the price of something that means you make your profit; if it seems like a good deal, I'll buy it.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#123

Post by hef19898 »

maxehmookau wrote: post #121
hef19898 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware, that if someone manages to get you pay more by not having to deal with a sales person, it is them who are rippong ypu off? Quite literally at that.

I understand your point but I disagree. They're providing me with, in my eyes, a premium product. "Come buy a car without the dance. Here's the price. Give us money, I'll give you a car. No strings." I'll pay extra for that. I'll never win against an experienced salesperson, so why bother even trying?

Opinions differ. But then paying a premium means paying a higher price than just accepting whatever a sales person asks for initially... To me, that is kind of stupid. But the I never got the German obsession with panel gaps neither, so make of that whatever you will.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#124

Post by somerandomqaguy »

herbst wrote: post #56

1. Find out what you want from a car 2. Realize a 25 year old car does all that 3. Just pay the few thousand in cash I may be weird but I don't get why anyone would make dept just buy a fancy car they can't afford?

Some of the tech in newer cars is just downright impressive.

* Toyota's hybrids can achieve close to 40 miles per gallon on an SUV while achieving 200+ horse power and completely eliminates all timing belts and chains. No more digging into the engine bay to replace those. Just fluid replacements and inspections of the electrical connectors.

* Anti lock brakes are way better today then systems from the late 90's. A 1990's car I could brake more effectively then ABS could no problem. Mid 2010's cars and onwards? No contest, ABS just beats me consistently. The controller can release brake pressure from a single wheel loosing traction while the others maintain maximum braking force, something impossible to do with just the brake pedal. It's also what makes modern traction control so good; a 6 year old can correct a minor loss of traction in milliseconds, long before the driver even realizes there's a problem.

* Seatbelt pretensioners are now tied into the car's communication network, meaning in the event of a crash they can take up slack far more quickly and reduce whiplash injury.

* Assuming that the headlamps are properly sealed, LED lights should never need replacing.

* Reversing cameras with guidelines tied to the steering wheel angle is just pure cheating when parking in tight locations with a large car.

* Adaptive headlights

* Having a keyfob is super convenient. Not having to dig your keys out of your pocket to start the car is nice; not essential but I'd rather have it then not, even with the risks involved.

And purchasing a newer car typically means reduced chance of abuse from a previous owner. Is it really that surprising that there's people that don't want to put the kind of effort needed to dig into and repair an older car?

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#125

Post by martincmartin »

asdaq1312512 wrote: post #61
globular-toast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. I just went on autotrader, found one that looked good that I could afford to buy 3 times, went to bloke's house, stuck my head underneath, unscrewed the oil cap, shook hands, did a bank transfer, taxed it online and drove it home. Took me a day.

on top of it all, your loss of value over time is much lower. will never understand why people would buy a new car that depreciates by 30% the very second you drive off the dealership.

An economist literally won a Nobel prize for answering that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

When you buy a used car, even one that's less than a year old, you have no way of knowing if there's something wrong with it. So buyers offer lower prices. Then a seller who has a car that they know is good says "I'm not selling it for such a low price, I know it's worth more." So the only people who sell used cars are the ones where something is wrong with them. A kind of race to the bottom.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#126

Post by aklemm »

asdaq1312512 wrote: post #61
globular-toast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. I just went on autotrader, found one that looked good that I could afford to buy 3 times, went to bloke's house, stuck my head underneath, unscrewed the oil cap, shook hands, did a bank transfer, taxed it online and drove it home. Took me a day.

on top of it all, your loss of value over time is much lower. will never understand why people would buy a new car that depreciates by 30% the very second you drive off the dealership.

I think for buying reliable cars, new is the way to go. They cost way too much used and the first person got all the best miles out of it. Unreliable/niche cars, used all day.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#127

Post by culopatin »

globular-toast wrote: post #53
rmason wrote: post #32

Bought my first new vehicle in fifteen years. Here are the steps that I took. 1. Test drove four different brands 2. Went to six banks and found out the lowest interest rate I could get. Everyone told me that it would be at a credit union but instead it was a brand new bank that apparently was hungry to get new business 3. Emailed every dealer for the brand I chose within 225 miles. 4. You want to do one thing at a t…

Jesus. I just went on autotrader, found one that looked good that I could afford to buy 3 times, went to bloke's house, stuck my head underneath, unscrewed the oil cap, shook hands, did a bank transfer, taxed it online and drove it home. Took me a day.

Used is a different world

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#128

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

reducesuffering wrote: post #10
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #2

Not sure who needs to hear this, but you can buy a nearly new car used and save 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost. One big benefit is you let somebody else find out if new models are lemons. Another benefit is you don't need to haggle, as there will be many different options at different prices and you can quickly find out if the price is reasonable by checking KBB.

> nearly new car used and save 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost This is pretty old advice, inaccurate for any car worth it's salt that you're buying. Good luck buying a slightly used Toyota for 1/2 cost, it's more like 6% off each year.

Almost all cars lose 20% of their value within first year of ownership. https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/how-to-beat-car-depreciation/

Go do a search for 2019 and 2020 Ford F150s or Toyota Tundras. They almost all list at half MSRP.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#129

Post by Spivak »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #124
herbst wrote: post #56

1. Find out what you want from a car 2. Realize a 25 year old car does all that 3. Just pay the few thousand in cash I may be weird but I don't get why anyone would make dept just buy a fancy car they can't afford?

Some of the tech in newer cars is just downright impressive. * Toyota's hybrids can achieve close to 40 miles per gallon on an SUV while achieving 200+ horse power and completely eliminates all timing belts and chains. No more digging into the engine bay to replace those. Just fluid replacements and inspections of the electrical connectors. * Anti lock brakes are way better today then systems from the late 90's. A 19…

> Is it really that surprising that there's people that don't want to put the kind of effort needed to dig into and repair an older car?

This is weird to read having grown up in a family that has never once bought a car new. My parents don't know a damn thing about cars and it's never been a noticeable issue. Buy the car with 40-60k and drive it to 200k, repeat. They're usually not American cars but there were some Ford trucks in there.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#130

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

mrb wrote: post #43

10 years ago I walked in a dealership to buy a used car and employed a negotiation tactic that I had recently learned online. The problem was that the technical price negotiation worked so incredibly well that I basically got (politely) thrown out of the dealership. The tactic was simple: disarming empathy. It was a method presented by a hostage negotiator via this NPR podcast: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1678023…

This has happened to me, except there was a couple looking at the same car on the lot, and they didn't try to negotiate, they just took the higher price, while I was negotiating. So by the time I got the lower price it had been sold. I ended up later buying a different car for a lot more money than even the sticker of the first car.
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