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After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

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Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#121
I think the hard part of programming, or programming related things, is environment setup.

Even with things like Docker, you can still run into SO many issues.

Programming by myself is always easy.

Programming within a company can be difficult because of this. There are definitely places out there that make environment setup super simple. Even then, you can still run into something that hasn't been encountered before.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been academic studies on this. The average hourly productivity as measured in lines of code for professional developers is very low. Along to order of 1 to 2 lines of code per hour. This is because of all the other communication and synchronization that you mentioned that needs to happen.

That's a decline. It was 6 instructions per hour when Brooks wrote "The Mythical Man-Month" in 1975.

Would a line not contain more than one instruction, on average?

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#124

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Exactly. I love programming. I do it in my free time.

It's forcing myself to dig the ditches of corporate software engineering that I hate.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#125
post #116

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Are "TPS Reports" a real thing?! I thought they were just a jokey gag name that they created in the Office Space movie to represent pointless busy work. This is like all the times as an adult I finally understood a joke I heard in The Simpsons back when I was a kid!

At one company, I was responsible for putting together all the third-party software and their licenses. I called it the TPS report :)

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#126

I'm happy to say that my company writes "good" code, at least on the production side, and I have genuinely learned a ton and become a better engineer while working here. The experimental, test, and sometimes CI code is shit. Test code makes sense, it's immature prototype. CI should be much better than it is, it's extremely fail-safe and its false-positive rate is a major headache for the entire software org. But our…

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Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#127
This is the problem as old as time. For one thing as you gain more experience your experience is deployed on gnarlier, more poorly defined tasks, which are naturally more difficult. For another, as yoy get exposure to higher level concerns you begin to care about them more. So no wonder it doesn’t get easier - hopefully the paycheck gets fatter over time

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those processes, tps reports, jira and other annoyances is because in a programming environment you literally have too many cooks in the kitchen. Every programmer can create the system from scratch, so to prevent them from doing so, we have to make it super annoying. Basically it's a people problem. The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries. T…

> Every programmer can create the system from scratch Every programmer believes he can create the system from scratch FTFY I'm one of the "every", too. If I knew how hard writing a C++ compiler from scratch would be, I'd have never tried it.

Which parts did you find blockingly complex, or was it more the interaction of so many language features?

The operator overloading aspect of C++ , IMO, allows for obtusely opaque domain specific languages where the actions and side effects of an operation aren't immediately clear to someone getting to know a new codebase. It's almost as bad as the enterprisy nightmare of polymorphic objects and interfaces that can be found in JAVA where tracing code execution can pierce through hundreds of source files just to figure out the effects of one line of code.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#129

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Most of those processes, tps reports, jira and other annoyances is because in a programming environment you literally have too many cooks in the kitchen. Every programmer can create the system from scratch, so to prevent them from doing so, we have to make it super annoying. Basically it's a people problem. The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries. T…

>Every programmer can create the system from scratch

Are you sure about that? Can one coder recreate Facebook's(for example) complete architecture from scratch? Unless I misunderstood you, I'd imagine there is just too much domain specific knowledge in all the components to do so even in a single lifetime.

>The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries.

The graveyard of github projects with the mentality of "I could recreate that in a weekend" seems to somewhat contradict this line of thinking.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#130

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Most of those processes, tps reports, jira and other annoyances is because in a programming environment you literally have too many cooks in the kitchen. Every programmer can create the system from scratch, so to prevent them from doing so, we have to make it super annoying. Basically it's a people problem. The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries. T…

As we are not cooks and git is not a kitchen, one must take issue with your “literally.” Be wary of ever qualifying an idiom that way, as they are so often prepackaged metaphors, as here!

But your point is otherwise an insight. Coordination is a (the?) salient challenge and opportunity in all sorts of scaled industrial production. Git itself is fundamentally a coordination tool. Small optimizations can enable OOM jumps in scale.

That is to say: managers do have a purpose, though perhaps only the platonic, spherical manager fulfills it adequately.

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