Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it doesn't start at the top, it starts at the middle.
VP and GM are not middle manager titles at Boeing.
Also not C-Suite, eh?
Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
121–130 of 150 posts
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did. Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not bee…
> Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel To be fair, that's because Boeing forced them to sell the rights to the A220 for $1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...
You mean to say the rights were sold to Airbus, who went on to acquire more.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#123Ablative management: Layered heat shield of dispensable people that burn off to protect the capsule with the execs.
I get the sentiment, but I much prefer this to the alternative, which is rank and file employees getting laid off. It’s much better to have accountability that starts at the top and then trickles down. Too often it feels like workers are the only ones who suffer from the bad decisions of executive leadership.
I don't think the rank-and-file are out of the woods yet. As far as this specific departure, he was a VP of the 737MAX program and for 2.x years at that. I presume there are equivalents for the rest of the 737 line and then for the 777, 787, etc. This does not even touch the rest of Boeing. Yes, he's a large fish but I don't see him as one of the truly big fishes. FWIW, I am not for or against this guy, I have no idea if he's part of the solution or prolonging the problem.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#124Ablative management: Layered heat shield of dispensable people that burn off to protect the capsule with the execs.
This is the job description for the CSO (chief security officer): Get fired when the inevitable security breach occurs .
Quality Assurance, especially when subservient to a CTO or Engineering head is often this as well.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Based on the fact that we are experiencing a competence crisis right now, particularly in aviation but also more generally. Someone with that many years of technical experience should probably just be mentoring 100% of the time.
so what is the reason he was fired for? certainly not because of his years of experience?
and certainly not for the bolts missing which had nothing to do with the 737 MAX.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
And no engineer would have gone with only two AoA sensors. And no engineer would have made the computer ignore one of those two AoA sensors because two isn't enough and now you have a dilemma of which to trust. And no engineer would have cooked up the cockamamie idea of hiding the new CAS scheme so that they could claim that the new plane was the same type as the previous plane. And no engineer would have insisted th…
Yet, the engineers did go with two AoA sensors. The MBA’s aren’t putting the planes together. Ultimately, it’s engineers who build the planes within the budget and parameters set by the bean counters. Somebody decided 2 AoA sensors were good enough and the engineers built it that way, presumably giving the ok to use just 2 sensors or they would have cut some other corner instead. There’s plenty of blame to go around…
But it wasn't an engineer, nor any one person, that made all the decisions that lead to this failure. It was company culture, driven from the top down, to cut costs. Who is accountable for that?
Who is at fault if a cars brakes fail? The mechanic that installed them wrong? Or the boss that overworked them, expected them to get more brakes installed for less money every year, didn't give them the proper training to learn how to install the brakes, and hired that mechanic after firing the senior one with more experience because the new mechanic was cheaper?
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#127and when they fire the rest of them and move the headquarters back to Renton (or wherever the engineers live), not VA. and pick some brilliant management with both engineering and business experience, that have strong incentives to make boeing a success long-term. and when pigs learn to fly. and somewhat after that, with a lot of work and good luck, it might get a little better.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#128But who are the real culprits? Why are their heads not rolling also?
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a way is this not an appropriate response for multiple breaches? If I was CSO and my company was plagued by breaches that came about because of my lack of oversight when it was my job I’d fully expect to be fired. I don’t believe a single incident is equivalent in this case to what happened to the MAX platform, to much has gone wrong
The usual problem is that the CSO is given things to do, no budget, and no authority. Which, again, if you go in open-eyed can be fine.
This changed a lot in my perception. Security teams have now more authority — and it's driving everyone else nuts.
Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief
#130Steps in the right direction, let's get rid of more engineers and replace them with more MBAs. > However, a person familiar with the decision and who asked not to be identified commenting on sensitive personnel decisions, confirmed that Clark’s leaving was not voluntary. > Clark is an engineer. His successor Ringgold has business degrees. However she began her aviation career performing avionics systems maintenance a…
While many here won't disagree in general, be wary of holding this sentiment as dogma. There can be bad apples in engineering, and MBAs who can see that whether or not they have the knowledge or experience to make it better themselves. Whether or not they can (or want to) make the next step of hiring better or more honest engineers is what matters then. (I'm not optimistic about Boeing here, but hey.)
Any of the two intertwined organizations will eject bad apples towards the other?