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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#121

Post by smileysteve »

jjav wrote: post #89
Tagbert wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. Most cars today are more reliable than cars 20-30 years ago. More cars are lasting well past 100K miles and often 200K miles. Sure you have some few cars that have survived since ‘98 but they are not numerous.

> More cars are lasting well past 100K miles and often 200K miles. Cars have lasted over 100K since forever and 200K isn't a big deal. All my cars from the 80s and 90s have over 200K miles.

American car brands traditionally did not last 100k miles until the Japanese brands flooded the American markets in the 1980s.

There are performance automobiles, though, (Porsche, Nissan) that don't use hydraulic lifters in their "consumer" vehicles and require valve adjustment at 100k miles.

200k miles is actually a pretty big deal still, as it's about the lifetime of efficiency valve stem seals, crank bearings, and catalytic converters, and self tensioning timing chains.

20 years is also the upper limit on rubber and plastics; so if a car is 20 years old and hasn't had all of its suspension bushings, hoses, and seals replaced, they need to be on the list.

Then you have the Ford Ecoboost head gasket issues and Chevy collapsible lifter failures which have led to less than 100k mile life of engines in the last decade on about 10% of their cars.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#122

Post by a_gnostic »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #109
alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting. Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs. Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

No thanks. In that case I prefer to build my own, so I know how to fix it myself. Some people and laws might take issue with that though.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#123

Post by hasbot »

ejb999 wrote: post #118
ptek wrote: post #37

The annoying thing is that you see arcticles in paper and clips on tv that you have to upgrade all your old equipment from the 60s so you can "save energy". Who wants some iFridge/iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won't connect to the internet for a firmware update. Also the CIA can't hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken be…

We own a second fridge, a GE (family of 6 so we need the extra storage). It is now ~65 years old and has never needed service and has not failed to maintain the correct temperature. Not sure you can buy one like anymore.

That's incredible. Might I suggest monitoring its energy usage and reporting it here.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#124

Post by AndrewKemendo »

tayo42 wrote: post #64
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a certified GE service technician come to my home and install a electric glass top range that came with the home because it had broken from my cast iron sitting on it while the glass cooled. I turned off the range with my Cast Iron on it, the cast iron cooled slower than the glass and the glass cracked. Poor design not built for cast iron. This happened twice. That meant I got to spend good time chatting with t…

> cost of fixing is higher Paying a human to do anything is so expensive. And it makes sense when you break it down by what their costs probably are. I don't think anyone is even making a lot of money there is so much overhead costs.

But you have to use a human no matter what.

In this case the thing that changed was we went from fixing with a few parts, to wholesale replacing.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#125

Post by hasbot »

fhe wrote: post #17

on the other hand, my 10 year old mac mini still runs fine, although it no longer supports the latest OSX and many of the more recent APP's. But as a media/entertainment device, light duty file server, and even coding the occasional throwaway program, it comfortably holds its ground.

I'm not sure why you think that is remarkable. My daily driver is a homebrew PC that I put together myself (the second PC I've ever built). It can't be upgraded to Windows 11 but runs Windows 11 fine, runs all modern software fine including games though only at the lowest graphics setting.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#126

Post by doctorwho42 »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #120
papa0101 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'You'll own nothing and be happy' world then?

Household appliances aren't a thing many people are attached to, which simply should work. Giving up the worries there might make people happy. If one doesn't get the feeling that one overpays. And that fear will likely win, before another model reaches scales where it is beneficial. We can see that a bit with cars in cities, where car sharing tries to do that, while profits are hard to make (also die to hard competi…

In a world where customer service is being reduced YoY, and slowly given over to chatbots. You are telling me that you trust companies to give you timely service for something you rent?

When was the last time you had trouble with your Internet router or modem? A large number of people rent these items from their ISP.

(1) the cost of renting, in this case, is way higher than the actual value of the device. (Last I looked, you rent for a year, you are better off buying your own)

(2) repair requires a 12 hour window of your time. May not be able to come due to high volume of work per tech.

(3) no penalty for the company really if your stuff doesn't work for 3-5 days, as long as they 'are working on fixing it'

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#127

Post by cesarb »

j45 wrote: post #33
moandcompany wrote: post #14

It's hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They're worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product "sustainability." The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going…

People move into new homes. Most people don’t, or don’t know how to make their appliances last much longer. For example the minimum of maintenance for water tanks, or changing air filters more often when your home has AC.

> People move into new homes.

Don't people bring their appliances with them when moving?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#128

Post by idiotsecant »

a_gnostic wrote: post #122
johannes1234321 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting. Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs. Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

No thanks. In that case I prefer to build my own, so I know how to fix it myself. Some people and laws might take issue with that though.

There is no law that will prevent you from making a washing machine.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#129

Post by davidmurdoch »

cpursley wrote: post #18
davidmurdoch wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a 98 BMW, albeit with lots of maintenance (that I do my self). You think today's cars will last that long?

Sure, ask anyone with a Toyota.

Toyota might be the exception.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#130

Post by destitude »

b112 wrote: post #69
magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc. It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage. The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your m…

Quebec, Canada one-ups on this! Our warranty law essentially says a "product must work for as long as is reasonable". There is also a very easy way for citizens to apply to a commission, including past judgements, with a simple form and no cost. One can also look at past judgements. So far, the logic is that an expensive fridge should last 10 to 20 years. Same for other appliances. And if companies give the run-aroun…

So do these major manufacturers sell different models in Norway and Quebec?
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