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The case against caffeine

zantafakari.substack.com

121–130 of 251 posts

Re: The case against caffeine

#121

The graph titled "Caffeine Accumulation With Long Half Life" is weird. Isn't that not how half-life works? A higher blood level should mean faster elimination, but here it acts like the baseline changes each day. No matter how slow the user's clearance is, the ratio should always take the same time to get halved. Edit: actually this graph implies that people like the author would end up poisoned by a lethal dose of c…

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Re: The case against caffeine

#122

At least personally, I've found that starting to drink coffee has had a pretty dramatic positive impact on my depression. I wonder if the difference in experience could come down to the specific circumstances and nature of the issues that someone faces?

Coffee is an anti-depressant. AFAIK it increase serotonin and dopamine levels so is not all that different from a lot of antidepressant drugs.

Re: The case against caffeine

#124

Seems like the author is a slow metabolizer like me. Interestingly enough, it seems that the caffeine half life can be shortened by eating broccoli ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17266520/ ) - by having coffee in the mornings and broccoli with dinner I've been able to enjoy the mood boosting effects of caffeine during the day and still be able to sleep fine. Sleep quality aside though, I thought my anxiety was due…

Thanks for sharing, even the remote chance that it works for me makes it worth trying

Re: The case against caffeine

#125

I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day. Eventually I realized I had sto…

I second the “experimenting” thing. I would recommend going caffeine free for a couple weeks every once in a while, just to kind of… keep track of the addiction. I’ll quit coffee occasionally, historically usually for a tolerance break if it’s getting a bit too much, or to just kind of “reset” my brain chemistry.

I ultimately found that reducing was a good idea, but I personally like coffee a lot and feel it adds something for me. I also have adhd though, so I’m probably playing with a slightly different deck on the “how stimulants interact with the brain” front.

I have found that having controls and limits around caffeine intake is a pretty good practice. I found that to reliably sleep well, I need to never drink caffeine after noon. And reducing my intake a bit helps as well. But from there, I haven’t seen much further benefit from quitting entirely.

Re: The case against caffeine

#126
post #117

The user found out that he's overdosing on caffeine and cutting it late in the day. Caffeine takes 10 hours to clear from your system. I only drink a single cup of coffee every day, at 1 PM, to clear my afternoon better. It's not a substitute for sleep, lack of attention and your body has an upper limit. Don't abuse that limit, and you'll have none of the problems author described. I'm telling you as a person who dra…

Caffeine can take and usually takes way longer than 10 hours to clear from your system. If you have 400 mg of caffeine in your body (max daily caffeine recommended by FDA), after 15 hours you will still have ~64 mg left. After 15 hours you still have the equivalent of 1 ounce of espresso in you.

400mg of caffeine equals to ~1.0L - 1.2L of filter coffee. Drinking it in one go is not that easy or common to begin with.

When you drink in 300ml mugs with normal speed, you clear the caffeine 10 hours after your last mug. That was my point.

If we want to skew numbers, we can take pure caffeine in powdered form theoretically, but that would be very unpleasant to deal with, and is not the mode of caffeine consumption I have seen around, to be honest.

Re: The case against caffeine

#127

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.

I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically for about 5 months. Then I started getting sloppy and mixed in light-caff (like chocolate and decaffeinated teas/coffees) and other factors in my life also kicked in and sleep got worse again. Unfortunately I don't have the drastic caffeine cut to fall back on now.

For me, the change 9 months ago was entirely one change - unsweetened caffeinated drinks to unsweetened purely non-caffeine drinks (like "dandy blend" and rooibos).

Anxiety didn't decrease noticeably when I made the change, but sleep improved a lot. Now if I drink caffeinated teas (3 times in the past 2 months) or eat a lot of chocolate I definitely feel the anxiety and just general discomfort. So there's a link of some sort. It feels uncomfortable now...

Re: The case against caffeine

#128

High amounts shrink the brain, increase dementia risk. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1028415X.2021.19... And very few people drink 1-2 cups. The travel mugs and typical coffee place cups are close to this danger range.

6 cups a day is 48 oz of coffee. A travel mug and venti is 20oz. I don't know anyone who drinks more than 2 of those in a day. Stop the hyperbole.

A travel mug is more an amorphous volume than simply 20oz.

A Stanley Mug, like the recent Stanley x Starbucks collaboration is 40oz. I believe this may be what they are referring to.

However, it's rare that individuals with the 40oz mugs are filling them with coffee, and if they're with espresso drinks, it's more likely that the volume of milk is increased rather than consuming 8 shots of espresso.

I'd assume most people with travel mugs that consume coffee are using 10 - 16oz mugs like myself?

Re: The case against caffeine

#129

I have been drinking a lot of coffe my entire adult life. Many cups of really dark coffee. But a cup is small . And dark coffee doesn't necessarily mean loaded with caffeine. Nothing prepares you for the kind of watery-yet-caffeine-loaded juice you get at a US coffee shop. It's like they think someone would enjoy drinking a half liter hot beverage, and get half a lethal dose of caffeine. Even though I drink 5-10 cups…

It is customary for me to enjoy an espresso (occasionally two) with a bar of dark chocolate after dinner. I sleep well not much later. 100s of thousands, if not millions, do this as a matter of culture.

I definitely can't sleep as well if I drink coffee after say 5pm. I also have quite an extreme effect of coffee when it comes to sharpening my attention and cognitive ability. Those of my friends who say they can sleep well after coffee also don't really report any significant effect on ability after a cup. I think it's two sides of the same coin. You get the good with the bad, if your caffeine receptor-thingies are tuned.

Re: The case against caffeine

#130

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

> I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.

AIUI there's a well established genetic component to caffeine sensitivity and metabolism.

Personally I find dissolving in a spoonful of lions mane mushroom powder takes the edge off and also seems to mitigate withdrawal symptoms should I choose to take a break for more than a day.

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