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The Layoff

xeiaso.net

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Re: The Layoff

#121

Post by jcadam »

xena wrote: post #102
akudha wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2024? It happened to me in 2020, right after Covid. I was unable to reach a colleague, thought he was sick (not unusual, he had health issues often). Until the “standup” rolled around and we were told he was laid off. Apparently he himself found out after most of his logins were shut off. Corporate world is as gutless as it is soulless

I've heard from a friend that the way they found someone was laid off was by Google Calendar suddenly removing the person that was laid off from invites while in a 1:1 with their manager. The manager had no context. That kind of inhuman feeling is what exemplifies the state of layoffs in the modern day.

Last time I was laid off (2022) it worked this way. It was a remote job - I was pulled into a random 1:1 meeting with my manager and immediately afterward I found all my permissions/access was gone.

Re: The Layoff

#122

Post by xena »

x86x87 wrote: post #120
xena wrote: post #93

Hi, author of the story here. Here's the side notes that I put on Patreon: This story was hard to write. Well, okay, the story was a lot easier to write after I ended up working in person in San Francisco for a week and after I had a long conversation with Corey Quinn about why things are the way they are. Either way, this story was hard to write because of the way you have to balance these things very carefully. If…

Have you considered using an AI bot to help you balance various aspects carefully? :)

I have! A lot of the drafting process for vetting ideas involves having a model generate out a few paragraphs of what the story could entail, but the rest of it is really writing out outlines like this: https://xena.greedo.xeserv.us/files/The%20Layoff.pdf

Then I take that outline, stew on it for a while, and eventually something comes up to inspire me to fully send it into a draft. Then I wait a day and edit that draft down until there's no more to cut out.

So many things end up on the cutting room floor, but it's how you end up with the stuff that's great left behind.

Re: The Layoff

#123

Post by jcadam »

matwood wrote: post #50
vasco wrote: post #13

"We won't share a list of the affected employees because some of them might not want the information to be public" was the biggest bullshit I've heard recently - no fiction needed. Discovering that people you worked with for years have been laid off only because you randomly notice their slack is deactivated has to be one of 2024s gifts to humanity.

We're people really told before, or did everyone simply find out because they were all in the office together? I know when I worked in a big company 20 years ago I would have no idea who was let go in another office.

Last big layoff I was a part of in the before times, I was working for a huge aerospace company who just lost out on a major gov contract. We were told layoffs were coming, and they would happen on a certain day. You would get a phone call to come to your manager's office for a private meeting, or you wouldn't and that meant you were not laid off.

So everyone is sitting at their desk, too keyed up to do any work, just waiting to hear who's desk phone is going to go off next.

My call came late in the afternoon (about the time I was starting to think I was safe). Everyone in the cube farm knew you just got hit as you walked toward the boss's office where the boss and the HR lady were waiting.

Re: The Layoff

#124

Post by samatman »

weatherlite wrote: post #114
sokoloff wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think it’s not the company’s place to give out further information in this case, absent a request from Bob’s family.

So why even say he died? Maybe just say he is not working for the company anymore and let the team figure it out for themselves if they are that curious.

If a colleague of mine died, and management described this as "they are no longer with the company", this would create some huge trust issues if I found out. Which in any place I've ever worked, I would find out.

"Passed out" is just a verbal typo for "passed on", an accepted euphemism in English for someone dying. I think that slip is forgivable, clearly not ideal, but human beings make mistakes. I also agree with the parent comment that it isn't management's place to provide details about the death, but IMHO they have a responsibility to say that's what happened.

Re: The Layoff

#125

Post by tracerbulletx »

akudha wrote: post #84
vasco wrote: post #13

"We won't share a list of the affected employees because some of them might not want the information to be public" was the biggest bullshit I've heard recently - no fiction needed. Discovering that people you worked with for years have been laid off only because you randomly notice their slack is deactivated has to be one of 2024s gifts to humanity.

2024? It happened to me in 2020, right after Covid. I was unable to reach a colleague, thought he was sick (not unusual, he had health issues often). Until the “standup” rolled around and we were told he was laid off. Apparently he himself found out after most of his logins were shut off. Corporate world is as gutless as it is soulless

My biggest complaint is that lying is just completely endemic. The best liars, who lie so well you question if they're lying when it's right in front of you, are at the top, and you just progress down from there with everyone playing along to known lies. Finding and working in areas with people who care about the truth is like a priceless haven.

Re: The Layoff

#126

Post by p00psicle »

omoikane wrote: post #98
commandlinefan wrote: post #81

> get the rest of the year's worth of pay Damn, last time I got laid off I got two weeks severance after five years of employment. I didn’t even get to keep the laptop.

I remember when the first company I worked for did their first round of layoffs, the severance was something like two months. It was good enough that people were asking the CEO "why didn't you ask for volunteers?" The later rounds were not as generous. Nobody got to keep their laptops or desktops, but few months later the company was liquidating its assets, and some of the former employees got to buy some slightly da…

At one place I worked I really needed a piece of hardware. I found the best hardware for the price and sent it to my manager. A couple weeks later it was delivered to THEIR desk. So I bought it myself and went to the CEO and asked if he'd cover it, he did. Then when they went under the next year everything went to auction. So I went and bought it again.

Re: The Layoff

#127

Post by samatman »

xena wrote: post #106
sys_64738 wrote: post #56

[Spoiler alert - look away now if you haven't read the story] I'd expect the logical extension to this to wholly be using AI for the managerial aspect of bringing you into the conversation. Employers will have the right to make use of a manger's likeness for reasons they see fit, such as using a bot to layoff their direct reports. Removes the emotional liability from the manager.

Something that got pruned from the final draft was the manager also being there to monitor the call, but also an AI duplicate. I thought that was too creepy and it would make it too realistic, so it was left on the cutting-room floor.

I enjoyed the story, and want to offer some mild feedback. I found the reuse of "Hooli" from Silicon Valley distracting, spent the next few paragraphs wondering if this was supposed to be SV fanfic. I can think of a number of fake company names which would immediately suggest Google to the reader, without having that effect, as I'm sure you can as well.

Re: The Layoff

#128

Post by yetanotherdood »

kyrra wrote: post #76
Arbortheus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone at my work created a secret bot that scrapes the outlook contacts list and diffs it from the previous day, each day. This way we get daily updates whenever a new person is onboarded or offboarded. As employees we now have more clarity about the state of layoffs and hiring decisions that most of the management team does. I suggest doing the same within your org if you can.

Google has had a very visible tool internally for this for years. It lists every single person that leaves on a given day. It even has a system set up where the person leaving can email it, and the note would be attached to their leaving notice. You can also search the system and see anybody that's left at any point. So I could look for people that left 15 years ago. The layoffs the last 2 years have been interesting…

Boy do I miss go/epitaphs; you could actually sort by departures based on tenure as well. But I've heard you could get into trouble for scraping epitaphs or specific ganpati groups to figure out who has left specifically around layoff seaon.

Re: The Layoff

#129

Post by jprete »

Frost1x wrote: post #80
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying the same thing about off/near-shoring for decades. "X will be replaced by cheaper Y" but that has not materialized in any way. If anything, the opposite has been proven as demand for high-skilled labor continue to push salaries and competition for positions up. The amount of AI is coming for X or AI will replace Y is so unfounded at this point, I'm chalking it up with FSD-levels of hype. It re…

> People have been saying the same thing about off/near-shoring for decades. "X will be replaced by cheaper Y" but that has not materialized in any way. Eh? It absolutely has in many industries. It also has been tried many times in software, it just tends to fail, so the fact the option was there and perceived as an advantage and acted upon is exactly my point. It very well could happen and it absolutely has and has…

I'm reminded of a recent news story where scammers used multiple AI deepfakes on video calls to convince someone in a financial corporation to transfer them some 25 million dollars.

So I'm thinking it's possible to do this _right now_.

Re: The Layoff

#130

Post by jcadam »

omoikane wrote: post #98
commandlinefan wrote: post #81

> get the rest of the year's worth of pay Damn, last time I got laid off I got two weeks severance after five years of employment. I didn’t even get to keep the laptop.

I remember when the first company I worked for did their first round of layoffs, the severance was something like two months. It was good enough that people were asking the CEO "why didn't you ask for volunteers?" The later rounds were not as generous. Nobody got to keep their laptops or desktops, but few months later the company was liquidating its assets, and some of the former employees got to buy some slightly da…

I've found laptops always go back, but monitors they tend to not care about. I've been on contracts where they only want the laptop back, after sending you a complete setup with monitor, keyboard, etc.
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