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It’s just a beta, though, right now… We don’t know if this is getting released or not yet.
Apple confirmed that there are no more full screen web apps. Just bookmarks. > EU users will be able to continue accessing websites directly from their Home Screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality.
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> If PWAs win That's like saying if Linux on the desktop wins in 2024. PWAs have been around for about a decade now. The excuses have run out.
I think Apple's failure to provide sufficient capabilities for PWAs is a valid excuse here. If PWAs are limited competitively on the platform with the highest ROI for developers … that's a problem.
I can see a problem with the monopoly on the App Store given the dominant position of Apple. But if Apple decided tomorrow to remove the screen from all their phones and have audio control only, I think it would be their choice.
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I think Apple's failure to provide sufficient capabilities for PWAs is a valid excuse here. If PWAs are limited competitively on the platform with the highest ROI for developers … that's a problem.
I think it is debatable. Can I make an iOS app in pure Python, and should Apple make it possible? I think Apple has the right to decide what kind of API they provide to their users. Just like nobody is forcing Tesla to allow running Windows "because some developers would like to run Windows apps in their Tesla". I can see a problem with the monopoly on the App Store given the dominant position of Apple. But if Apple…
Given that neither the browser or iOS runtime can interpret it, no? I think it's reasonable to expect people to write an iOS Python interpreter and expect to get that distributed though. And if the users deliberately install it, what's the problem?
> Just like nobody is forcing Tesla
Tesla has to certify vehicles as road-safe. Besides FCC compliance (which Android handles just fine), Apple doesn't really have many legal safety obligations to use as a defense. Unlike a Tesla, Apple can let users sideload iOS apps without threatening other users around them.
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> If PWAs win, it will be because native apps failed. Or because the vast majority of people who "write code that runs on mobile phones" know web technologies and not the mobile ones. Web programming is simply more accessible. The thing is, "more" is not always "better".
None of that really disagrees with what I said. Apple failed to lower the on-ramp for native development to the people that wanted it. Now we're seeing desperate porting attempts to the browser, and Apple's desperate attempt at plugging the gap. > The thing is, "more" is not always "better". In the free market, competition is king. "Better" is decided by pitting it against "more".
> Apple failed to lower the on-ramp for native development to the people that wanted it.
And they don't have to, IMHO. It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev, and Apple is making a ton of money from those who do. Apple not wanting to go out of their way to lower the bar to a point that they don't find profitable is their choice.
> In the free market, competition is king.
I am not sure I am seeing "free market" and "competition" with PWAs, where people lobby to get laws to help them pass their ideas. The free market alternative would be for PWAs to get so good on Android that Apple decides to embrace them.
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I think it is debatable. Can I make an iOS app in pure Python, and should Apple make it possible? I think Apple has the right to decide what kind of API they provide to their users. Just like nobody is forcing Tesla to allow running Windows "because some developers would like to run Windows apps in their Tesla". I can see a problem with the monopoly on the App Store given the dominant position of Apple. But if Apple…
> Can I make an iOS app in pure Python, and should Apple make it possible? Given that neither the browser or iOS runtime can interpret it, no? I think it's reasonable to expect people to write an iOS Python interpreter and expect to get that distributed though. And if the users deliberately install it, what's the problem? > Just like nobody is forcing Tesla Tesla has to certify vehicles as road-safe. Besides FCC comp…
I see a problem with the idea that "we did not convince Apple with our PWAs, that's probably because they are evil, so now we'll try to force them with the law".
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Is it though? A large portion of apps on the mobile app stores are already built using cross-platform technologies like React Native, Ionic or Flutter. In some instances it is very easy to tell, in other it's not. You can create quality experiences using cross-platform, you can create awful experiences using native tooling. In many instances, I'd rather have the not totally native app that exists than the absolutely…
I understand your point, but it somewhat says that making awesome native apps is not even an option anymore. I use Things (a todo app) daily. It was #1 of Design in the AppStore maybe already 5 years ago. I think it's a perfect example for a beautifully made native app. I really feel how the native behaviour workes so much smoother. I would love for creators to somehow strive more for beautifully made apps instead of…
It is not and it seems like the developer focused its resources on native software for Apple products.
Maybe we should be pushing for fewer PWAs overall. I personally will not use any web-based app when I can use a native app (with a few exceptions). PWAs just add unnecessary bloat, and the current HTML/CSS/JS stack that the web uses was designed for delivering text documents, not apps, so that inherently limits the experience.
I personally will not use any native app when I can use a web app
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Electron apps are getting much better. VS Code is considered the best app in its class by a distant margin and it’s an electron app. The first round of Electron apps were created by people who were simply trying to get some cross platform native version of their apps out. It’s only been recently that companies are now creating electron apps as first class products and now those apps are doing very well.
The popularity of VSCode is mystifying to me: IntelliJ is a much nicer application and VSCode always ends up lagging randomly for me.