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I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

ifuckinghatejira.com

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Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#121

Post by commandlinefan »

lijok wrote: post #113
commandlinefan wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org You're kind of missing the problem here - it's both and neither. It's not the tool (it's awful) or the mid-to-large org itself, it's the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way. If people just treated it as a "necessary evil" time-tracking type system t…

> But far too many people without a lot of mental faculties actually take it completely seriously and try to put everything in it and expect meaningful results out of it. It actually ends up being worse than "nothing at all" because it _insists_ on the "only do what can be predicted and whose predictions is measured in hours" model of software development that stupid people think encapsulates creative activities. You…

So are they.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#122

Post by fragmede »

wkat4242 wrote: post #104
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

I don't want to use any tool or methodology.. I just want to do my work.

how do you want to do work without tools?

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#123

Post by dboreham »

commandlinefan wrote: post #93
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

> disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org You're kind of missing the problem here - it's both and neither. It's not the tool (it's awful) or the mid-to-large org itself, it's the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way. If people just treated it as a "necessary evil" time-tracking type system t…

> the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way.

The background to this is : yes it can. I worked in organizations (long pre-Jira) where we developed the bug/ticketing system specifically to drive our development management process. The two evolved in concert. The result was excellent, and sadly has never been re-achieved with any of the modern tools.

My take on this is that somebody was told that the bug system can be used to drive project management (which it can) but then implemented a bug system without any real understanding of what that means or how to achieve it.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#124

Post by lolpanda »

I've used many tasking tools in my previous startups, Asana, Phabricator, Jira, Shortcuts... I think I liked Phabricator because it's flexible and not scrum like when you manage projects. I can see why people hate Jira.

Jira is the only tool I know that has proper permission and visibility controls.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#125

Post by tikhonj »

bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

I worked at a large organization and yet didn't have to put up with anything Jira-like and top-down. Ticket-based development is neither necessary nor sufficient—nor even particularly effective—for coordinating software development at scale. It's a throwback to the superficially compelling but thoroughly ineffective ideas of "scientific management".

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#127

Post by et1337 »

The problem with JIRA and its ilk is that they try to do bug tracking, planning, and historical data all in the same tool, when those are really separate problems.

Have a bug? JIRA makes perfect sense, you have a ticket with comments, it keeps track of how long it's been around, it can automatically move the bug through a process, etc. All these tools started out as "bug trackers" after all.

Trying to plan future work? What I usually want is some kind of lightweight graph tool to figure out task A unblocks task B, etc. This graph changes a lot over time, with tasks merging and splitting apart. I've wasted a lot of time trying to enter all this in tickets.

Want to know about work that's already completed? I would never look at JIRA. Look at your Git forge. Pull requests should have proper descriptions. The Git history will always be more accurate and detailed than a bunch of JIRA cards.

So basically, use JIRA for bug tracking, Git/Github/Gitlab for historical tracking, and I'm not sure what to use for planning. Honestly I've been reaching for Excalidraw recently.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#129

Post by mschuster91 »

bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

We did the switch to Atlassian Cloud last year as there was no way to justify going for the 4x markup of a data center edition for self-hosting and oh boy, what a ride. The UI keeps changing around, it's dog slow, for some reason you can't copy a text from a ticket description because the pure act of clicking on the text will switch over to the editor that takes >10 seconds to load even on a high-power machine on a 10 GBit/s uplink...

Atlassian desperately needs to pause on new acquisitions and new features for at least two years and rework all of the products they acquired and unify them. Literally every Atlassian product offering has a different way of doing things, no consistency anywhere. Oh, and half of the functionality has no API, and there is no first party Terraform provider so you have to do everything by hand every fucking time.

The abusive workflow bullshit by clueless middle managers is another problem in itself, thankfully I'm in the lucky position to tell people "no, we won't do that".

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#130

Post by vundercind »

_dain_ wrote: post #81
submain wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share the sentiment and frustration of having to fill useless boxes. However, as a manager, things go south very quick if you're not tracking what's being changed and by whom. You won't know what's included in your release, nor if it was tested properly. You won't know who to reach for fixes after testing or even what to tell clients when they ask if a feature/fix was shipped. I hate overly complicated processes, b…

>tracking what's being changed and by whom git >You won't know what's included in your release release notes >nor if it was tested properly. CI

Resistance to simply reading data we already fucking have is so very weird to me in “agile” (and much of non-agile, to be fair).

Part of the trouble is using things like Jira and moving tracking-what’s-happening and chatting-about-features farther from the code than it needs to be.

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