How to hire low experience, high potential people • Hacker News Board

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#121

Post by garciasn » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:30 PM UTC

the_mar wrote: post #78

nineplay wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. "Let me tell you about the years of physical/emotional/sexual abuse I've suffered though." That's just not going to happen - and if it did happen the interviewer is probably not going to come away with "What a brave person to overcome all of that!" but "What a damaged person, I don't need them around". Well done, you've weeded out people wh…

Thank you. I found the part where the author throws in "cared for a dying parent" particularly distasteful, it's like a benchmark for "palatable damage"

I could only see that being relevant when there are resume gaps that may be explained by being a SAHM or caring for a dying parent.

But as it relates to actual work? No.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#122

Post by darkwater » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

the_mar wrote: post #111

kapp_in_life wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think I'd be fine weeding out people who can't read a social situation and decide to traumadump to their future coworkers.

Ok so how should someone with a traumatic childhood answer questions about their childhood? You can change the subject or answer very surface-level and be labeled "unengaged" or "socially inept" You can answer truthfully and be judged for traumadumping You can make up a fake origin story that fits the interviewer's criteria and be disingenuous

Remember that we are talking about a job interview here.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#123

Post by CharlieDigital » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

smeeth wrote: post #75

CharlieDigital wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 4-quardrant way of thinking about this that's similar. - Y-axis is "drive" - X-axis is "aptitude" - low drive + low aptitude: never hire - low drive + high aptitude: hire for targeted use cases where you need expertise - high drive + low aptitude: hire, train, and foster aptitude growth - high drive + high aptitude: hire on the spot There's an indirect way of testing for this which is to test for curiosity a…

I like this, but I do think it misses the social stuff. Just a few neurotic/unethical people can completely ruin a team and make all the best people quit. I find this to be extra true on diverse teams (all types of diversity).

Yes, I now call this "vibes".

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#124

Post by dkasper » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

Some of these questions may be borderline illegal. In my experience interviewing folks for Meta we are taught not to ask such questions because of the obvious bias. Even probing into what neighborhood someone lives in is dubious (oh you grew up on the wrong side of the tracks?). I don’t even look at résumés anymore, although recruiters have to screen them. Focus on the job, if you are conducting a coding interview asking coding questions, maybe ask about something they built in the past for fun/work/learning . If you’re doing system design ask them to architect something. If you’re doing behavioral interviews this is trickiest but focus on the on the job behaviors, even if their previous job was not tech or they only have educational experience you can see how someone works with others on a project. Personal questions like this are a really bad idea.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#125

Post by tiktaktow » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

I tick a lot of boxes and I've always excelled beyond expectations when hired for positions that I did not have good match on experience. Hire me! My guarantee, I'll surprise you.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#126

Post by throw18376 » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #90

smeeth wrote: post #41

People's intuitions around hiring aren't Bayesian enough. I think a good process reduces down to something like: - Are they smart? (understands quickly + communicates effectively) - Are they cool? (won't put poison in the keurig + pleasant to be around) - Are they high energy? (initiative + action bias) - Do they have the experience needed to be successful in the role? Those are pretty strong priors for success. If y…

> adding more boxes tends to index towards box-checkers who grew up wealthy. Yeah, but that's the point. Those who come from wealth bring connections. Connections are what make or break a business. A mediocre worker with rich parents is far more beneficial to the business than a standout worker that came from the slums.

i think that in the United States, this is simply not the case up until the true super-rich.

the vast majority of rich people are not well-connected enough to drive any business your way. if you have a tech startup do you really care that you hired the son or daughter of a car dealership magnate from the other side of the country?

in the USA it's possible and in fact more common to become a very wealthy without becoming hugely influential.

they may be well-connected in their particular geographic region or within a certain business sector, but this would be a specific advantage which usually wouldn't benefit your business.

this may be different in some other countries, where nearly everyone wealthy is part of the same national elite group.

but generally, in America, you'd be better off hiring the better employee.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#127

Post by walthamstow » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

CharlieDigital wrote: post #54

smeeth wrote: post #41

People's intuitions around hiring aren't Bayesian enough. I think a good process reduces down to something like: - Are they smart? (understands quickly + communicates effectively) - Are they cool? (won't put poison in the keurig + pleasant to be around) - Are they high energy? (initiative + action bias) - Do they have the experience needed to be successful in the role? Those are pretty strong priors for success. If y…

I have a 4-quardrant way of thinking about this that's similar. - Y-axis is "drive" - X-axis is "aptitude" - low drive + low aptitude: never hire - low drive + high aptitude: hire for targeted use cases where you need expertise - high drive + low aptitude: hire, train, and foster aptitude growth - high drive + high aptitude: hire on the spot There's an indirect way of testing for this which is to test for curiosity a…

Aren't these quadrants from about 100 years ago? Some Prussian General von Whatshisname?

Edit: General von Hammerstein

I divide my officers into four classes as follows: the clever, the industrious, the lazy, and the stupid. Those who are clever and industrious I appoint to the General Staff. Use can under certain circumstances be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy qualifies for the highest leadership posts. He has the requisite and the mental clarity for difficult decisions. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be got rid of, for he is too dangerous.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#128

Post by lysecret » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:33 PM UTC

Hiring for potential means to me, they didn't have the time to learn something yet. So, the most important thing is: How quickly do they learn new stuff? Are they excited about learning new stuff? You can figure this out by letting them talk about previous situations where they had to learn something new quickly.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#129

Post by losteric » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:33 PM UTC

lysecret wrote: post #116

nineplay wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. "Let me tell you about the years of physical/emotional/sexual abuse I've suffered though." That's just not going to happen - and if it did happen the interviewer is probably not going to come away with "What a brave person to overcome all of that!" but "What a damaged person, I don't need them around". Well done, you've weeded out people wh…

Or weeded out honest people.

It’s literally selecting for people who can tell the best stories. Not great for any company dependent on moving fast with autonomy, with a genuine mission.

Plus “looking for grit” really means “looking for someone to work long hours (typically without good odds of realizing fair equity)”… super unethical to even attempt to be selecting for people with trauatic and toxic Pasts.

If they wanted to select candidates for learning quickly, being adaptive, whatever… just test for that.

Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people

#130

Post by nickdothutton » Wed, Feb 07, 2024, 4:33 PM UTC

FWIW my advice on the same: Hire for intellect, doesn’t have to be in the precise area you are working in. Some of the best people I’ve hired did not come from a CompSci or Informatics background. They were mostly STEM though. Hire for enthusiasm and energy. There are people who are radiators, and there are people who are drains. Don’t hire drains. Hire for the soft skills. People who can communicate. People who you _want_ to help (because they will need help at least at the start). People who are easy to work with (because little is achieved in most endeavours by a loner these days).