You are what you love • Hacker News Board

Re: You are what you love

#121

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sun, Feb 04, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #103

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%, I was thinking this exact same thing. I couldn't help but ponder the irony that during the pandemic, the vast majority of "essential workers", i.e. people we really need to fulfill the foundational layer of the economy, were usually the lowest paid: garbage men, farm labor, construction labor, grocery store workers, delivery drivers, etc. The famous "Pyramid of Capitalist System", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

We make sure that all important jobs are easy to do so that they can reliably get done. Hard unreliable jobs can thus never be as important as the easy ones, they are still important but never as important because we don't want to rely on unreliable work. You can see that in software orgs as well, the easiest tasks are also the most important, like ensuring the site continues to run and handling breaking changes in d…

Thanks very much. I've heard this phrased different ways before and I understand it, but "We make sure that all important jobs are easy to do so that they can reliably get done" is probably the clearest and most succinct way I've heard this put.

Re: You are what you love

#122

Post by StopTheTechies » Sun, Feb 04, 2024, 9:55 PM UTC

> I find it really challenging to talk with people who have completely separated their work from their emotional being.

Is this not everyone? Who the fuck brings their emotions to work? I thought the whole trope of "you should love what you do" was just capitalist tripe to get people excited about the work most people were required to do to avoid homelessness (notice—society offers no right to shelter or any other meaningful protection from harm).

Re: You are what you love

#123

Post by timeagain » Sun, Feb 04, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

inertiatic wrote: post #2

>I find it really challenging to talk with people who have completely separated their work from their emotional being. For me, work is part of life and it should be a meaningful one. I like my work too but when I hear things like this it's so hard not to cringe because of how much of a place of privilege this comes from. Most jobs are things no one would want to do if they didn't need to survive, and that's fundament…

In less well paying jobs it is usually easier to have emotional integration. Less of your identity is at stake, your responsibility is small enough that you don’t have to reorganize your values to work the job.

This is my experience working in factories vs offices anyway. No one is fake in the factory because we don’t need to be. Office people play so many little games and politic around and pretend to be happy even when they’re not.

Re: You are what you love

#124

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Sun, Feb 04, 2024, 11:15 PM UTC

inertiatic wrote: post #2

>I find it really challenging to talk with people who have completely separated their work from their emotional being. For me, work is part of life and it should be a meaningful one. I like my work too but when I hear things like this it's so hard not to cringe because of how much of a place of privilege this comes from. Most jobs are things no one would want to do if they didn't need to survive, and that's fundament…

> but when I hear things like this it's so hard not to cringe because of how much of a place of privilege this comes from.

Man, you must hate your family. I can tell because you think someone else who values their job highly is privileged.

Maybe we can stop using that fucking word for everything.

Re: You are what you love

#125

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Sun, Feb 04, 2024, 11:16 PM UTC

karmakaze wrote: post #84

inertiatic wrote: post #2

>I find it really challenging to talk with people who have completely separated their work from their emotional being. For me, work is part of life and it should be a meaningful one. I like my work too but when I hear things like this it's so hard not to cringe because of how much of a place of privilege this comes from. Most jobs are things no one would want to do if they didn't need to survive, and that's fundament…

It's also a recipe for a bad work environment. It's good to have passion and accountability in doing good work. It becomes a problem when you identify with your creations , then anything said about it can only be taken personally without an ability to detach from it and speak/think objectively.

this is a caricature of what it means to care about your work.

If you don't actually understand it (and you don't), don't criticize it. Chesterton's Fence.

Re: You are what you love

#126

Post by Doxin » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 10:17 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #26

bambax wrote: post #21

> If you don’t know what you love, try playing with a couple of things. I have a theory that what you love is what you can experience bad versions of. If you're picky about something, you don't really like it. Connoisseurs and fanatics aren't picky, they're voracious. If you can only drink the very best wines, you don't like wine. I can eat very very bad, even stinky Chinese food, because I love all versions of it. I…

Not really. Having taste doesn’t mean you don’t like it. You can really like subsets of things that suit your taste. “You don’t like interior design unless you get lit by prison cell decor”

I bet someone deep into interior design could hold some really firm opinions on prison cell decor. Presumably they wouldn't think prison cells are the pinnacle of interior design, but it's not like there's no design there at all.

Re: You are what you love

#127

Post by brabel » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 11:27 AM UTC

huytersd wrote: post #63

brabel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably). It's amazing how today we can actually even think that "work should be a meaningful part of life" rather than just a means to keep you alive. Today, I would say most peop…

This is bullshit. I directly know families in Asia that farm a moderate sized one acre plot without heavy machinery. It is long days of work during planting and harvest but that’s less than 2 months of the year. The rest of the year is maintenance and other support work and starting at 6 in the morning they’re usually done by 1-2p.

It's not bullshit. I am not talking about modern farm life, I am talking about the time before civilization rose (which is nearly all of human history before 10,000BC to around 400,000 years earlier when people would've been recognized as a modern human).

Do those families have access to modern conveniences at all? Like any goods shipped across the world by modern shipping, just as one of thousands of examples? They do, I am sure. Imagine you lived before that, where the only stuff you would have easy access to were goods produced within a few hundred Km (but mostly you needed to produce everything yourself within your "tribes").

Most of human history had no cities, very few roads, very little commerce outside local villages. I am sure they did have a lot of free time as others mentioned... but work was just not something you did for enjoyment and I think it never really is.

Re: You are what you love

#128

Post by brabel » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 11:36 AM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #37

brabel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably). It's amazing how today we can actually even think that "work should be a meaningful part of life" rather than just a means to keep you alive. Today, I would say most peop…

> Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably). Btw this is simply not true. People worked less in agriculture than a 9-5. You’d only really be working hard at specific times of the year- harvesting, seeding, etc. Yo…

Well I am not sure you're even disagreeing with what I actually said: I didn't say they did the same thing every day. Just that they had to work hard day in day out. And I am pretty sure that's the case, even if what they did a lot of the time is what you call the "in-betweens". Remember that most people would've lived under a local chief which surely would find lots and lots of things for them to do, like build monuments, train for war (which is a constant in every human society ever - ours may be the most peaceful society in all of human history actually), even compete in sports which could be a matter of life and death in those times. Women had to be really hard workers in those times as I'm sure taking care of kids/cooking/cleaning before electricity was discovered would've required much more time than they actually had.

Re: You are what you love

#129

Post by brabel » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 11:45 AM UTC

j4yav wrote: post #66

brabel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably). It's amazing how today we can actually even think that "work should be a meaningful part of life" rather than just a means to keep you alive. Today, I would say most peop…

That’s actually sort of a myth. If you work on a farm, there are a few very intense parts of the year, but most days are otherwise prep work and maintenance and you can actually wrap up fairly early and manage your own schedule. What sucks about farming is thin margins and how a bad crop can wipe you out. Possibly different on a factory farm that maximises production every day but that’s not really what you’re referr…

A modern farm has almost nothing in common with the farms of pre-modern history. It would've been much closer to indigenous tribes for much of history.

Re: You are what you love

#130

Post by t0bia_s » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 12:51 PM UTC

nonrandomstring wrote: post #90

t0bia_s wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a fix for capitalism that cripples our attitude to work?

> What would be a fix for capitalism that cripples our attitude to work? Us. Our culture. FWIW I'll try to explain a little more. I mean, that's a great question but I think it's the wrong question, if you don't mind me saying that. Nobody can see outside the logic of their own epoch. Capitalism can't be "fixed", because it's just what it is. If we "fixed" it, it wouldn't be capitalism any more, it would be something…

I find quite problematic when capitalism is driven by fiat money. Because then there is no limit, until something terrible wrong happens. Or... Someone brings a better financial system.