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Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

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Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#121

Post by mdhb »

pjmlp wrote: post #120
mdhb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why you’re pretending to have some kind of secret insight on Fuchsia but you’re talking out of your ass here. And I don’t know what you think Flutter is built with but it’s C++ / WebAssembly and WebGL. https://x.com/FlutterDev/status/1708908434068779376

It's public knowledge, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39005470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36871673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34515277 You didn't even knew about its use in Nest Hub Smart Displays. I know how Flutter is implemented, thank you very much. Most likely is a very thin layer over existing Google Earth C++, unless you have some proof the C++ code was fully rewritten into Dart, beyo…

You’re continuing to just make shit up here, I’m not sure how to proceed

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#122

Post by pshc »

ezst wrote: post #98
armchairhacker wrote: post #15

I hope Dart gets more support, I really want alternatives to TypeScript for developing webapps which aren't super "bulky" (slow startup, buggy and hard to debug) and support mobile apps. Dart seems to be the best at both although I haven't used it much. It also seems reasonable (one of the reasons I don't like TypeScript is because it still has some quirks from JavaScript like `===`, also because the types are occasi…

> I really want alternatives to TypeScript for developing webapps which aren't super "bulky" I hear you, but what do you expect Dart's contribution as a language/technology to be in this space, effectively? While syntactically comparable, TypeScript is a better typed JavaScript than Dart will probably ever be (in terms of leveraging a type system to enable more complex/maintainable apps and libraries). And since ever…

> TypeScript is a better typed JavaScript than Dart will probably ever be

At the same time, thank goodness Dart doesn't have all the warts of Javascript and a standard sane build system. Dart doesn't have to be the best Javascript to be good at what it does, especially now with algebraic data types and pattern matching.

I'm hopeful they'll make Wasm production-ready soon to move away from JS transpilation.

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#123

Post by zwarag »

armchairhacker wrote: post #15

I hope Dart gets more support, I really want alternatives to TypeScript for developing webapps which aren't super "bulky" (slow startup, buggy and hard to debug) and support mobile apps. Dart seems to be the best at both although I haven't used it much. It also seems reasonable (one of the reasons I don't like TypeScript is because it still has some quirks from JavaScript like `===`, also because the types are occasi…

I did a little programming in dart. There are many things to like. And I believe, at the time of writing, that Dart really is great for both java and js devs. Every object that is used has to be an instance of a class, and the event-driven style for reactive programming is pretty much 1:1 to how js does it. So it truly could become the sweet spot for UI development that is appealing to both types of devs.

I just wished it would have native tuples.

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#124

Post by zwarag »

teho wrote: post #118
mdhb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hasn’t been true for over a year maybe two at this point.

It is absolutely true still, it is especially bad on iOS and the worst when you have a ProMotion device. They did hard lock the max fps to 80fps on scrollable elements on ProMotion devices, which really is telling enough but it doesn't solve the very noticeable jitter either.

I'm writing a game in Flutter. The game has ads, shaders, custom gesture detectors, ... . I can tell you, it is absolutely butter smooth on iOS.

I tried something similar a few years ago and I would have said you're absolutely right. But with the one I'm writing now, it is quite the different experience.

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#125

Post by pjmlp »

mdhb wrote: post #121
pjmlp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's public knowledge, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39005470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36871673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34515277 You didn't even knew about its use in Nest Hub Smart Displays. I know how Flutter is implemented, thank you very much. Most likely is a very thin layer over existing Google Earth C++, unless you have some proof the C++ code was fully rewritten into Dart, beyo…

You’re continuing to just make shit up here, I’m not sure how to proceed

With public facts, for starters, otherwise just ignore my "shit".

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#126

Post by balencpp »

preommr wrote: post #72
chipweinberger wrote: post #10

to anyone that has not used it, dart is an excellent language * instant compilation * amazing tooling * null safety * typed I could go on.

Please do, because excluding minor exceptions, the more popular of recent programming languages have these as table stakes. Everything (even previously dynamic languages like python) has some form of static typing, options/null-safety, and really good tooling (ts ecosystem is huge, rust compiler has entire articles praising it for making people better programmers). Some languages might be slow to compile but have sol…

Some form of static typing != proper static typing. The 'static typing' from Python (and other previously dynamic languages) do not come close to Dart's; neither does Typescript's.

All forms of null-safety aren't the same. The ergonomics differ.

Huge ecosystem != good tooling. But indeed, Rust has good tooling. Doesn't mean you can compare Rust to Dart though.

Rust's compile-time is improving, but why are we bringing in future items for comparison?

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#127

Post by freedomben »

mardifoufs wrote: post #112
freedomben wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about Java? How about Ruby? (If you have worked with those). I'm mainly asking so I have a baseline for what your preferences are. Considered Dart in the past but haven't tried yet

I dislike ruby, purely as a matter of personal preference. As a baseline, python is probably as "dynamic" as I can tolerate, and java I just don't have enough experience with sadly enough. I use mostly c++/go/python with some julia and rust (not enough to have tons of experience with it though!). I'd day try dart, it's very easy to pick up. In some odd ways it reminds me of swift!

thank you!

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#128

Post by markdog12 »

zwarag wrote: post #123
armchairhacker wrote: post #15

I hope Dart gets more support, I really want alternatives to TypeScript for developing webapps which aren't super "bulky" (slow startup, buggy and hard to debug) and support mobile apps. Dart seems to be the best at both although I haven't used it much. It also seems reasonable (one of the reasons I don't like TypeScript is because it still has some quirks from JavaScript like `===`, also because the types are occasi…

I did a little programming in dart. There are many things to like. And I believe, at the time of writing, that Dart really is great for both java and js devs. Every object that is used has to be an instance of a class, and the event-driven style for reactive programming is pretty much 1:1 to how js does it. So it truly could become the sweet spot for UI development that is appealing to both types of devs. I just wish…

It does have tuples. They're called records in Dart: https://dart.dev/language/records

Also "destructuring" via patterns: https://dart.dev/language/patterns

Re: Dart/Flutter now has macros/metaprogramming

#129

Post by chipweinberger »

never_inline wrote: post #66
mightyham wrote: post #60

I really love the engineering that has been put into dart/flutter and the innovation it has brought to native UI development, but I just can't justify using it for anything. The ecosystem is immature and anything I would use it for could just as easily be written in Kotlin or JavaScript (TS).

> The ecosystem is immature There are usually good libraries for most things today. And with Android / Jetpack ecosystem moving so fast and deprecating things, Flutter is something to consider even if you target just Android. My biggest two concerns were state management and native interop. State management is probably biggest concern - there are at least 5 approaches / libraries competing for mind-share - and none o…

I've never understood why people need to use libraries to "manage state", i.e. store variables.

I've written a lot of code in many languages. C, C++, Obj-C. Why does Dart need state management libraries?

None of my Flutter code uses "state management", and I've never felt the need for it, ever.

I think people are just too afraid to use static variables (globals) when necessary.

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