Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know of a similar case, the employee in question had to go through a similar process of questioning and audits just because they switched from FAANG A to B and somehow their manager came to know about it. After that incident, many members left the team for other companies; they’ve been careful to not update their LinkedIn page with the actual company that they’re working for. When asked, they often said that they w…
This is sadly some of the best advice you can ever give to someone in tech: never, *ever*, disclose the place you are going to. After the fact, when you arrive, sure, consider it. Eventually. But never before, and especially not before everything is signed and the ink is dry.
Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
121–130 of 135 posts
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the entire field/practice of "Performance Management" as it stands today needs to be thrown out and reinvented from ground-up by Behavioural Psychologists/Biologists on a proper scientific base. The current practice is basically ad-hoc management with some so-called scientific methods/metrics thrown in based on the current fad. As an example; here is a long list of Cognitive Biases from wikipedia to ponder ov…
Think of "Performance Management" like Capatalism , nobody likes it but it's the "best" that we have found [for sufficiently large orgs]" I'm sure you could think of a hypothetical system that is better than what we have. But there are probably good reasons why they haven't been used and I doubt worker fairness is one of them. This is a hard problem to solve.
From behavioural psychology/social biology/game theory(Prisoner's dilemma) etc. we know Humans naturally have a in-group vs. out-group social structure. Within a group, cooperation with trust and fairness rules and competition is generally absent or if it exists is playful. The research by Frans de Waal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_de_Waal) on Primate Social Behaviour (Cooperation/Fairness/Empathy/Reciprocity/etc.) is path-breaking. Here is one of his excellent must-watch Ted talks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk Machiavellian competition comes in only for "status"/"reward" within a group and is not the norm. Competition is more prevalent between groups.
Thus if you look at a person in a organizational hierarchy, there are three immediate groups; a) the people you report to (out group), b) your peers (in group, cooperation predominating, with maybe a little bit of playful competition), c) the people that report to you (in group, cooperation but with trust/fairness predominating). For everybody else we don't know and hence almost always respond with tit-for-tat principle. Finally there is also a need to understand what drives self-motivation.
This is the natural order for Social Homo Sapiens as we understand from current knowledge. But none of this is being considered when measuring Performance/Productivity. For example, all Leaders/Managers almost always place Trust above everything else, Peers emphasize Fairness and the Managed Underlings emphasize Empathy. So while i may accept my manager "grading" me however begrudgingly provided it is "Fair", i will resent the same done by my immediate peers and underlings.
One way to do this properly would be; a) Everybody does a self-appraisal and gives it to their Manager b) The Manager does his job properly by closely monitoring throughout the year and makes his independent appraisal c) Both are submitted to a panel consisting of Managers (one of whom is my immediate Manager with one vote) who don't know the appraisee and finally d) The panel discusses the appraisals with the appraisee in a private interview-like setting. This takes care of the needed Objectivism, Self-Interest, Fairness all together.
PS: Resources for further study can be found in my comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39086359
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> are not allowed to admit/work on them publicly since that might "out" oneself as "not good enough"; we have to become "posers/fakers" if we want to "play the game" and get ahead. I don't think that is true in the places I've worked at. Whether in interviews or in daily work, people only pretending to know things are not rewarded (unless nobody notices, but that means that nobody in the room is knowledgeable, which…
You have either been very lucky or have a very optimistic viewpoint :-) These things are never overt (they get weeded out early) but subtle and one has to read between the lines (and take into consideration one's own biases) to correctly gauge someone else's depth. Enthusiasm should not be mistaken for Capability. The key for proper Management is to read Engineers correctly and provide Training (introductory or more)…
This is clearly possible, if we assume literal geniuses are 1 in a thousand, then there are 8 million actual bonafide geniuses in the world, maybe a quarter million of which are in tech in some fashion.
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
The original archetype was a completely overblown caricature (based on some outliers) and wasn't true mostly. It was just an image pushed by the industry so that "Engineers" can be kept out of "Business Decision-Making" and thus Controlled/Managed easily. But now as you say, self promotion is everything and has been taken so far that one cannot call oneself "A Programmer" but a "Rockstar/Ninja/10x/whatever Programmer…
> The original archetype was a completely overblown caricature (based on some outliers) and wasn't true mostly. I disagree. As someone with a CS degree, this was and is a stereotype for a reason. > so that "Engineers" can be kept out of "Business Decision-Making" and thus Controlled/Managed easily. This sounds almost like a conspiracy theory, how have the "industry" come to this conclusion together exactly?
Absolutely false! This is a canard which has been spread and repeated again and again so often that people are not challenging it but accepting it on face value. I have worked across a lot of companies across two countries and never have i encountered somebody with so bad social/communication skills etc. that you could not interact with them. People are spread across a spectrum and in many cases they choose not to socialize due to "learned helplessness" from past experiences. One you understand and empathize with their pov they almost always open up and are very communicative.
You should also understand that "stereotypes" are very insidious and hence one needs to be careful in interpreting them. For example, here is the Nigerian writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie in her TED talk The Danger of the Single Story - https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_ngozi_adichie_the_dange...
“The single story creates stereotypes, and the problem with stereotypes is not that they aren't true, but they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story.”
> This sounds almost like a conspiracy theory, how have the "industry" come to this conclusion together exactly?
Simple "Organizational Politics". If i want to grow my power/fiefdom/etc. i need to keep decision-making to myself and given that Engineers are busy with Engineering it is easy to take it away from them. Makeup and sell the stereotype given above and you have the status-quo. Here is a relevant article by Gary Hamel from HBR which presents an alternative; First, Let’s Fire All the Managers - https://hbr.org/2011/12/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers. Your might also want to look at the resources mentioned in my comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39086359
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have either been very lucky or have a very optimistic viewpoint :-) These things are never overt (they get weeded out early) but subtle and one has to read between the lines (and take into consideration one's own biases) to correctly gauge someone else's depth. Enthusiasm should not be mistaken for Capability. The key for proper Management is to read Engineers correctly and provide Training (introductory or more)…
> AFAIK nobody does this; you are supposed to be magically "productive" from day 1 and are expected to continue at a "high-level of productivity" independent of the stage of the project/product/your life problems/etc. which is an impossibility. This is clearly possible, if we assume literal geniuses are 1 in a thousand, then there are 8 million actual bonafide geniuses in the world, maybe a quarter million of which a…
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is sadly some of the best advice you can ever give to someone in tech: never, *ever*, disclose the place you are going to. After the fact, when you arrive, sure, consider it. Eventually. But never before, and especially not before everything is signed and the ink is dry.
In BigTech companies that don't want you to go to competitors HR will grill you to disclose where exactly you are leaving, at least that's what I heard from others.
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#127I'd guess a lot of people would have their own special stories to tell. However, do not underestimate the fact that some of these stories might not be easily disclosed. A "friend of mine", let's call it Bob, decided to leave one of the big tech companies (call it "A"), and join another big tech company (call it "B"), which offers him exactly double the salary. Due to a very unlucky combination, a former colleague at…
If this was in CA, since 2022 non disclosure agreements that restrict employees from disclosing mistreatment in the workplace are illegal. This applies retroactively.
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. This is incredibly naive. The same logic would say that if project estimates were mostly wrong in a given company then they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. And yet project estimation is notoriously terrible across the whole industry.
Accurate engineering estimates don't have good product/market fit. You can't get management sign-off on a project that you accurately state will take 4 years, so you will instead just have to maintain and extend the old solution. That's the case where there's no competition. In a competitive market for engineering estimates, the low estimator will tend to win the bid. Meanwhile, you'll experience high turnover in you…
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is sadly some of the best advice you can ever give to someone in tech: never, *ever*, disclose the place you are going to. After the fact, when you arrive, sure, consider it. Eventually. But never before, and especially not before everything is signed and the ink is dry.
In BigTech companies that don't want you to go to competitors HR will grill you to disclose where exactly you are leaving, at least that's what I heard from others.
Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AFAIK nobody does this; you are supposed to be magically "productive" from day 1 and are expected to continue at a "high-level of productivity" independent of the stage of the project/product/your life problems/etc. which is an impossibility. This is clearly possible, if we assume literal geniuses are 1 in a thousand, then there are 8 million actual bonafide geniuses in the world, maybe a quarter million of which a…
No, this is not a Numbers Game but Human Factors. No living organism can be at their best w.r.t. a given task every day over long periods of Time. There are too many Environmental/Contextual factors at play here.