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The case for single-stair multifamily

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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#121

Post by idontpost »

bequanna wrote: post #13
alexb_ wrote: post #3

Land Value Tax being the main method of taxation would encourage municipalities to adopt things like this.

I have yet to understand why people have made land value tax a thing. As I understand it, land value and improvements are already taxed but a land value tax would only tax land value. Can someone make this make sense? Why would this promote development?

Because improvements aren't taxed. So if you add improvements (read: more housing), you don't pay taxes and you become more profitable (more rent, same taxes).

So you move all tax to just the land value at a higher rate than present, then let people build to offset the tax.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#122

Post by idontpost »

oh_sigh wrote: post #119
ok_dad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The classic example is the lot that sits empty or has a parking structure on it in Manhattan. Today, you pay very little tax on the empty land or parking lot because you’re taxed on that total value of the land and improvements. This discourages building stuff sometimes. With land value tax, you’d be taxed on what someone would pay you for that land with improvements similar to surrounding, so it’s advantageous to bu…

That's a classic example used by proponents of LVT. But what is another example? Terry buys a house in a run down, blighted, poor/cheap neighborhood, and along with other neighbors, starts to revitalize it. 15 years later, the formerly blighted neighborhood has become hip, due to the work and care Terry and others put in to it. Property prices increase as rich people want to move to the cool neighborhood, and now Ter…

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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#123

Post by adrian_b »

quickthrowman wrote: post #107
baq wrote: post #17

European here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon having learnt that you US folks need two staircases.

American here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon learning that 72 people died in the Grenfell Tower fire in Europe in 2017.

That had little to do with stairs, but it was caused by the use of inappropriate combustible materials, which were forbidden for buildings of that height in many countries of continental Europe, but they were allowed in Great Britain were regulations were much more lax.

So that event is strictly specific to UK and not representative for Europe in general.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#124

Post by Aunche »

RandomLensman wrote: post #43
ok_dad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The classic example is the lot that sits empty or has a parking structure on it in Manhattan. Today, you pay very little tax on the empty land or parking lot because you’re taxed on that total value of the land and improvements. This discourages building stuff sometimes. With land value tax, you’d be taxed on what someone would pay you for that land with improvements similar to surrounding, so it’s advantageous to bu…

So if the most valuable use is luxury apartments and stores that would be what everything needs to converge to? Feels like a tax always looking towards the most valuable use could actually be very regressive and push anything but the richest out of economically attractive cities. Maybe I am missing something?

Luxury apartments will depreciate into regular apartments over time. Allowing demand for luxury apartments to be pent up just means that rich people will capture more regular apartments instead.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#125

Post by Tiktaalik »

Interesting to see how we got to where we're at.

Seems like at no point along the way, as more and more fire safety measures were being added (eg. sprinklers!) did anyone think that maybe it meant some of the more egregiously expensive safety measures were now deprecated and their use should be ended.

British Columbia's government has mentioned they're looking into this and I hope we see an end to the mandated two staircases. People consistently say they want more two and three bedroom apartments. Single stairway buildings seem like one of the best ways to introduce the flexibility that would make those products more viable.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#126

Post by multjoy »

nicole_express wrote: post #21

I'd like to see more discussion of the safety impact; I know the article makes the point that fire deaths per capita are lower in Europe, which lacks the requirement, but it also notes that US housing stock is also much more wooden and therefore at higher risk to begin with. (Wood construction is generally a good thing from a sustainability perspective) Whenever I see this proposed my brain immediately goes to the Gr…

Grenfell is what happens when building regulations are poorly enforced.

In principle, each apartment in Grenfell should have been able to burn out completely while the neighbouring units were untouched, so there was no need for a second stair as any evacuation would have been limited to units adjacent rather than the entire population.

What actually happened is that years of neglect had seen firebreaks and bulkheads repeatedly compromised and then a load of flammable cladding added to the outside, because the building industry is basically rotten.

Had the same incident taken place when the building was first constructed, the damage would have been limited to the one apartment.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#127

Post by ghaff »

andix wrote: post #84
nadermx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has some very interesting requirements when building. In some cities, regardless of destiny, new buildings are required to have 1.x parking spots per unit or something of the sort as well. Which basically assures all buildings have to be designed for car centric life.

It's the same for many European cities and towns. Many cities started to reduce it down to 0.5 parking spaces per flat or less, because many of those parking spaces tend to be empty in bigger cities. And just increase prices for housing.

I was just visiting a European friend for a couple weeks. They have a car but parking was a sufficient drama that they took the Uber equivalent within the city most of the time. Busses but minimal metro.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#128

Post by phkahler »

timdev2 wrote: post #76
phkahler wrote: post #8

Sounds like a cost savings for those buying up all the real estate in the US and renting it out.

Lower costs for everyone. Including people you don't like. Yes.

>> Lower costs for everyone. Including people you don't like. Yes.

Touche. They are two different contributors to costs, and I wouldn't have commented if I weren't currently frustrated by high housing costs.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#130

Post by KaiserPro »

I'm sorry, but the assertions that multi-exit housing blocks take up more space is frankly bollocks.

Housing estates in Europe manage it by having proper balconies that can be used as exits, but also having share walk ways out the front.

Not only can you have two or more exits, it also means that you can secure the building more easily as there are less doors to secure.

take this estate: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RXscnAJaDRCLausL9

there are 200 flats, a mix of 1-4 bedrooms. The biggest flats are about 85m2 (~1000sqft) every flat has a separate kitchen, living room and toilet/bathroom.

There are four exits to ground level on the "C" (the top, right and bottom of the block) they are secured by keyfob. Each landing is then secured by another keyfob.

In case of fire, the balcony divider can be pushed open allowing refuge in the next flat.

These flats are made of concrete, and there are only 4 holes into the flat above/below, meaning that fire doesn't spread. That estate has a fire at least once every 2 years, and it only affects one flat.

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