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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#121

Post by NetOpWibby »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #92
nostromo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will risk an avalanche of downvotes and steel man Apple's argument. :) Have you ever gotten stuck with a monthly fee for something that's hard to cancel? It's a real pain the butt, no? But that never really happens on Apple devices, because Apple makes it incredibly easy to cancel subscriptions. You don't have to call anyone, you don't have to struggle with a bad website -- you just click cancel on your phone and i…

The main argument that you buy Apple because you can trust the payment system doesn't really go against the anticompetitive argument Epic is making. Re Android: * Android has the same 30% fee * Android controls the Play Store IAPs (dark patterns) almost identically to Apple - Mobile dev of 3 years

Personally, Android's ecosystem has never been compelling because of Google. Even barring their unrelenting focus on gobbling more of your data, they can't even keep their services on. Their graveyard is massive.

How many times has their default messages app changed? It's nuts. Being an Android developer seems like an exercise in frustration. I'm sure it happens on iOS to some degree but I've seen people online brag about never buying an Android app; piracy is rampant.

We desperately need a third option.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#122

Post by heavyset_go »

robertlagrant wrote: post #80
jmole wrote: post #78

I think what’s missing here is sideloading. The new terms apple set are ridiculous, but it’s their App Store, so whatever. However, this iPhone is my device and I should be able to install whatever app I’d like on it. Without that freedom, Apple has no competition and can set their fees as high as they please.

They do have competition. Most phones aren't iPhones.

Most phones in the US are iPhones, and I wouldn't call a duopoly healthy competition.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#123

Post by grishka »

dkonofalski wrote: post #117
grishka wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a choice to use a different engine to build your game (including rolling your own). You don't have a choice to not use the app store to distribute your iOS app.

Yes, you do. You have the choice to put your App on Google Play or host it yourself and make it available for Android.

I'm talking about iOS apps specifically. Don't pretend that not making your app available for the second most popular mobile OS is acceptable.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#124

Post by m3kw9 »

ado__dev wrote: post #7

Honestly if forcing everything through Apple's walled garden wasn't anti-competitive enough, this move certainly makes it so. What's next - pay 30% Apple tax for purchases made through Safari? I'm deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem. From phone, to computer, to home automation stuff. I have no desire to use a secondary app store. But I want that option to be be available. And there is no good reason for Apple to b…

Hypothetically if Apple be forced to only allow only payment from outside links, it does not mean they don’t provide infrastructure. They absolutely do.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#125

Post by dotnet00 »

ribosometronome wrote: post #11
ado__dev wrote: post #7

Honestly if forcing everything through Apple's walled garden wasn't anti-competitive enough, this move certainly makes it so. What's next - pay 30% Apple tax for purchases made through Safari? I'm deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem. From phone, to computer, to home automation stuff. I have no desire to use a secondary app store. But I want that option to be be available. And there is no good reason for Apple to b…

If that option is important to you, why deeply embed yourself in an ecosystem that doesn't have it when others exist?

I know many people who find themselves stuck in Apple's ecosystem since while they personally could switch out their computer and relearn everything, they can't really disrupt the things their older family are used to on other devices and expect them to relearn everything.

Combined with Apple's love of walled gardens (and therefore very limited interoperability with other platforms), switching out would cause too much friction.

Similar to how while I can buy my parents new Android phones as upgrades, they'll just go back to the old ones if they can't have the old school navigation bar they're used to. Unlike me they're no longer willing to relearn how everything works every few years.

It's always kind of annoying seeing this "just don't use it" argument, as it completely ignores that part of the point of the walled garden is that it gradually forces people to be so invested in the garden that it becomes increasingly expensive to leave it. It's a similar network effect as what keeps abusive platforms like YouTube alive despite no one really liking it.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#126

Post by crossroadsguy »

lykahb wrote: post #108

Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions. I do not want to take a side in this fight.

Me neither. Epic is such an obvious part of a walled-garden duopoly with monetary and lobbying power that nation states would be envious of and has done such things in the past that is unheard of in case of Apple, or maybe is equal to Apple hence, of course, no taking sides.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#127

Post by m3kw9 »

massysett wrote: post #48
ado__dev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's hardware is unmatched unfortunately.

Perhaps Apple’s hardware is unmatched in part because they profit from it by using the very mechanisms you don’t like. The engineering resources to focus on perfect hardware aren’t cheap. There is plenty of junk hardware out there that gives you more freedom.

Freedom has its limits, and Apple provides enough freedom for most users

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#129

Post by CuriouslyC »

lykahb wrote: post #108

Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions. I do not want to take a side in this fight.

All businesses employ manipulative practices, marketing and sales are built on them. An indictment of Epic on these grounds is an indictment of modern capitalism. It's annoying, base and tragic but not ultimately anywhere near the mafia-level thuggery to which Apple has engaged.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#130

Post by danbruc »

The economy primarily exists to benefit the consumers, not the producers. With that in mind, I should be able to run any operating system on an iPhone I bought. Apple should not be required to actively support this, put in extra work to document things or whatnot, but they should not be allowed to actively make things harder. If I got an iOS license, I should be able to install and run any application and be able to get it from where ever I want. If I use the App Store to distribute apps, then Apple should charge a reasonable amount reflecting the cost of distributing that app. If I use their payment services, then they should charge a reasonable amount reflecting the cost of that service.
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