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Re: undefined

#121

Post by keeperofdakeys »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #106
gbog wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I hope is that another mobile OS eat Android on its left: even more open, even less linked to big corps. This OS would be to Android what Linux is to Unix.

The problem isn't really the OS. It would be hard to find something significantly more open than stock Android sans the Google integration. The problem is that the OEMs (largely at the behest of AT&T et al) sell most of the devices with locked bootloaders. The tablet market has the potential to be the thin end of the wedge toward fixing that though. Suppose several of the existing PC makers like Dell get into the tab…

The open nature of Android, specifically being open source can be doubted at times. There is the whole incident with Honeycomb source code, and how it wasn't released until the Ice Cream Sandwich source code was released. Even worse is that this incident was in direct contradiction to comments from one of the android leads https://twitter.com/#!/Arubin/status/27808662429. I do have large respect for how open Android is though, and how the GPL on the Linux kernel really shows how useful it is.

In regard to secure boot and Windows 8, the restrictions are a part of the Windows 8 certification system. Personally I don't think many manufacturers will want to skip windows certification, even if they have to implement the restrictions. The more I think about it, the more I see this could bring up another anti-trust case. It would probably also bring the 'do you own your device' issue to the forefront.

Re: undefined

#122

Post by cageface »

patrickk wrote: post #120
cageface wrote: post #87

In C# I think MS has the nicest language of the three and I can't imagine Visual Studio is as bad as Xcode 4. I'm keeping a close eye on the WP market. If sales pick up at all I'm going to try my hand at a few apps. iOS is stagnating and the app market is absurdly oversaturated and Android is still the public access television of mobile.

I've used both visual studio (express) and Xcode 3. I much prefer visual studio. Your point about C# vs. Objective-C is an important one that may have been glossed over somewhat. I can't bear Objective-C, I find it's syntax highly confusing and difficult to parse (my own subjective opinion). C# is much more pleasant. Microsoft could win over developers because of this if they are smart about it. Now only if I could w…

I don't personally mind Obj-C but there's really no reason to write most apps in a language with so much exposure to all the low-level nastiness of C.

You can currently write iOS apps in C# with Mono but my initial experiments in that direction suggested to me that it was too far out on the limb for comfort.

Re: undefined

#123

Post by kelnos »

gnaffle wrote: post #88
redthrowaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter, I suspect. In Apple-worshipping circles, they bought the "Android is a stolen product" bit hook, line and sinker, conveniently ignoring the fact that the iPhone's interface was just an iteration on everything else that had come before. They look at the Windows phones and say, "see? You didn't have to copy the iPhone!" They would never use it, but it's necessary to praise it in order to validate their indi…

I think many iPhone fans see WP7 as an attempt to innovate, whereas Android seems more like an attempt to imitate (of course, Android has had many innovations as well). Apple made the first usable and popular touchscreen smartphone, and Androids success is largely due to the fact that Google recognized this and quickly repositioned Android, and I think that's pretty evident by looking at the evolution of the Android…

I think many iPhone fans see WP7 as an attempt to innovate, whereas Android seems more like an attempt to imitate (of course, Android has had many innovations as well).

So what? At the end of the day I care that my phone works well and in a way that makes sense to me. I don't care whether or not it's a "copy" of another user interface.

Re: undefined

#124

Post by huggyface »

RandallBrown wrote: post #117
jodoherty wrote: post #74

This doesn't surprise me too much. I just got a Nokia Lumia 900 (I'm using it right now in fact) and from a design and usability standpoint it really impresses me. Everything's so smooth and fluid, and the interface is so clean and consistent that it's just fun to use. It's so good that I could care less that the screen doesn't have some super high pixel density, that there's not that many good apps, or even that the…

I just got a Lumia 900 and I think it's the only phone that is competitive with the iPhone. It looks fantastic and it performs well. Seriously, there isn't a non-iPhone device out there that can compete with the design of the Lumia 900. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time dealing with the screen. Text looks like shit, and since most of what I do with my phone involves reading text, this is annoying. I hate that I h…

Your first paragraph lies in complete opposition to everything that follows.

Re: undefined

#125

Post by pedalpete »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #89
untog wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The navigation paradigma Microsoft uses is not for me, I prefer Apple's more natural approach. I'm fascinated to know what is "natural" about Apple's approach. I think it is "natural" because you are used to it. To me, it feels overly (/incredibly) app-centric. Both Android and Windows Phone (to differing degrees) feel far more task based: "You have a photo. What would you like to do with it?", as opposed to "You ope…

"By example, when I look up a contact in my address book in Windows Phone, it allows me to look up my history with that person. Emails, texts, IMs, tweets, everything- all in one place, because who thinks "Dave tweeted that at me" over "Dave sent that to me"? By contrast, iOS keeps every interaction siloed in-app." that's a very good point. And that sounds like a FANTASTIC feature I'd love to have on my phone. your r…

It isn't just limited to being 'people centric'. It's more content(? there may be a better word) centric. When you're looking at a photo, do you want to share it? go to one of your photo apps? adjust it? e-mail it to somebody?

I was really surprised when I got my iPad that I couldn't open a photo and just upload it to facebook or send it to somebody in an e-mail. I had to go find an app to do that.

Re: undefined

#126

Post by pedalpete »

Xuzz wrote: post #96
wmil wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone UI looks a lot like an updated Palm Tungsten T3, I'm not sure how innovative it actually was.

The major innovation was the scrolling: none of the previous touchscreen phones had smooth, natural, physics-based scrolling on a capacitive (e.g. finger, not fingernail) touchscreen. The home screen is a prettier version of the Palm OS one, and much of the UI is similar, although it feels a lot more natural with animations and without a desktop-style menu bar.

Are better scrolling and natural animations really innovation? It's much more of a progression. Touchscreen is the same? I believe the quality of touchscreens weren't good enough before 1997.

Re: undefined

#127

Post by inoop »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #98

Here's why Windows possibly has a shot at regaining a meaningful presence in the mobile space. 1) the untapped market potential is still huge (I myself don't own an Android or an iPhone - although I'll be buying an Android phone soon) 2) The customers gained by Android and iOS are not as loyal or as committed to each platform as the early adopters of the home PC were. When you bought your first PC, you usually spent…

3) WP8 and Windows 8 are converging into a single entity. Before long you'll be able to run a full desktop on your phone, all you need is a dock to connect it to a mouse/keyboard/monitor. This is a nice feature for a lot of people who just use their desktop PCs for typing out letters and browsing the internet.

If high-end smartphones are able to replace desktop PCs for light/casual users, Microsoft can take advantage of their desktop dominance. Apple of course could offer an OSX desktop, but Android would have to rely on gnome or kde, and although both of these are fine products, they haven't exactly proven themselves commercially.

Interesting times ahead, methinks.

Re: undefined

#128

Post by ImprovedSilence »

HorizonXP wrote: post #111
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By example, when I look up a contact in my address book in Windows Phone, it allows me to look up my history with that person. Emails, texts, IMs, tweets, everything- all in one place, because who thinks "Dave tweeted that at me" over "Dave sent that to me"? By contrast, iOS keeps every interaction siloed in-app." that's a very good point. And that sounds like a FANTASTIC feature I'd love to have on my phone. your r…

And it's funny how BlackBerry has been doing this for several years now, but people seemed to have just glossed over it. RIM has had NUMEROUS missteps over the last few years, but they do have some good ideas in there. Let's hope they shine this week with BB10. Oh, and let me get the obligatory, "BlackBerry? They still exist?" out of the way.

Hmm, you bring up some good points. Blackberries did have a lot of crazy good things about them. And I might even consider looking at a BB or WP for my next phone (just to be different, a bit of a hipster decision I suppose, but I'm disappointed with android, and I don't know if I want to support Apples frivolous patent trolling.)

Re: undefined

#129

Post by akmiller »

andrewfelix wrote: post #101
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #98

Here's why Windows possibly has a shot at regaining a meaningful presence in the mobile space. 1) the untapped market potential is still huge (I myself don't own an Android or an iPhone - although I'll be buying an Android phone soon) 2) The customers gained by Android and iOS are not as loyal or as committed to each platform as the early adopters of the home PC were. When you bought your first PC, you usually spent…

>The customers gained by Android and iOS are not as loyal or as committed I doubt Windows Phone users are any more loyal. I'm a current Windows user and I intend to go back to Android. The app market is weak and multi-tasking doesn't work particularly well. I do love the Zune software though.

I'm also a Windows Phone user and the Zune software on the phone is 2nd to none. However, I do not subscribe to Zune for the simple reason that my desktop of choice is Linux and OSX and Microsoft refuses to make a way for me to be able to listen to my music on those platforms (without running a virtual). How hard is it to allow me web access to their music collection!

Re: undefined

#130

Post by akmiller »

I keep hearing the "lack of 3rd party apps" and I have to wonder, are people really using that many applications? I was on iOS for a long time and am now using WP7 and I guess I just don't understand what apps people are looking for??

What I find lacking, coming from the Apple world, is the severe lack of accessories for my phone. Finding even a simple dock or a decent case is a pain.

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