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Cloudflare lays off new hires

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Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#121

Post by infotainment »

pc86 wrote: post #99
aestetix wrote: post #84

I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…

What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed. There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go…

> If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision

As they should!

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#122

Post by xpe »

whalesalad wrote: post #82
xpe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These things you mention are honestly more examples of fabricated concepts. Are you a religious person by chance? If you are trying to insult me, you should stop that behavior.

I am genuinely not.

Ok, thanks. Why did you ask the question of e.g. am I religious? Is there a connection?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#123

Post by aestetix »

pc86 wrote: post #120
aestetix wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters because this is about trust, transparency, and honesty. If you were in her position, would you want to know if your termination was due to something you did badly, or because of a general company policy? I agree that being honest is not going to make everyone happy, but I don't understand why they can't at least give solid reasons.

> I don't understand why they can't at least give solid reasons Probably the liability around someone saying something not accurate, or something that could be construed as approaching, even indirectly, some protected class. They've already laid her off, she's not going to be singing their praises under any circumstances, anything they do at this point just increases their liability. In a perfect world I'd love for p…

It sounds like the issue here is actually lawsuit culture. It's scary how laws that were designed to improve the lives of the working class actually wound up making life a lot worse.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#124

Post by verve_rat »

forward1 wrote: post #33
sneed_chucker wrote: post #3

I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.

Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.

Genuine question: Do you think that people in countries with strong labour laws are signing up to be literal slaves?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#125

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

piva00 wrote: post #103
pc86 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed. There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go…

> So why even bother giving one? Decency? Honesty?

Knowning when to apply honesty is also important.

If you tell an ex you left them because they are (fat?), is it honest or is it cruel ?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#126

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

aestetix wrote: post #84

I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…

I assume this is done to dodge WARN Act requirements. I can't think of any other reasons that make any kind of sense. I mean, honestly this doesn't make sense either, it's just all I've got.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#127

Post by SantalBlush »

LVB wrote: post #107
bamboozled wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When hiring, I'm suspicious of qualified people with low income expectations, I don't think this is a winning strategy personally and I'd take this advice with a grain of salt.

Suspicious of what, exactly? If someone needs work and aren’t landing the jobs, is there another approach they should be taking?

Suspicious that the highly qualified person isn't going to take the crap that the employer is hoping to give out at that lower pay level.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#128

Post by el_benhameen »

pc86 wrote: post #99
aestetix wrote: post #84

I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…

What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed. There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go…

In the case of the video, the implication is that she was told she’s being fired for performance, which seems unreasonable as she appears to have just finished training. I think the days of HR giving references with any information are long gone, but I still wouldn’t want to chance having something in my “file” about being let go for performance if that wasn’t the real reason. That and it’s just common decency to not blame someone for their firing when they don’t deserve the blame, regardless of how it’ll play on some message board somewhere.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#129

Post by tptacek »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #126
aestetix wrote: post #84

I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…

I assume this is done to dodge WARN Act requirements. I can't think of any other reasons that make any kind of sense. I mean, honestly this doesn't make sense either, it's just all I've got.

Doesn't the WARN act just come down to paying severance that covers at least the notice period? Sometimes I feel like comments here are premised on WARN being a magic spell that prevents arbitrary termination.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#130

Post by whstl »

candiddevmike wrote: post #20
hotpotamus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was literally in a meeting this morning where a co-worker mentioned he had reached out to Cloudflare a few days ago to ask about buying services and has not gotten a response. Certainly not a great start.

Maybe a benefit of sales layoffs will be a real pricing page! Hard to "Contact Sales" when there isn't any.

I really really really hate this. As a decision maker, I have SEVERAL times recommended or chosen specific products because the price was available vs a competitor that had a "contact sales".

I'm too old for this shit.

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