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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#121

Post by meltyness »

satya71 wrote: post #6
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

>“You don’t have any accomplishments,” the lawyer told him. “You don’t have a patent, or even a product.” That scolding spurred Sanjay to make a list of what he needed to do to achieve his goal of staying permanently. He improved the technology his AI-based firm was developing, expanded its customer base, and filed for a U.S. patent, which was awarded earlier this year. In May those efforts paid off, allowing him to…

Not any more than other patent applicants. Currently all the layers in patent application process is incentivized to ignore quality. 1. Large companies pay a bonus for every patent applied and bigger one for approval. 2. Patent lawyers are paid for filed patents. 3. Patent office makes money on each patent. They view the review process as a cost center and optimize it for fast approval.

replicability is unenforceable

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#122

Post by tock »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #113
aiisahik wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh the US has been amazing to me! I love the US! It gave me degrees (funded by American donors), it gave me work experience, it provided me with capital markets to raise $$ and build companies. I love it all. However, since the US doesn't really want me to be physically IN the US, I will simply continue loving the US from afar. I will maintain equity in US companies, I will take US capital and I will sell to US custo…

[flagged]

What are you talking about lol. Plenty of people work remotely for American companies and get paid over wire transfer.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#123

Post by aiisahik »

pavlov wrote: post #117
rayiner wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a win-win. Hopefully remote work will reduce the need for immigration.

How is it a win for the United States if American companies are employing less people in the country, and instead are paying remote workers who pay taxes elsewhere?

It's not. It's just a WIN WIN for the company and the individual.

But this is what the US is encouraging with its immigration policy so you reap what you sow.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#124

Post by bee_rider »

dudul wrote: post #71
jmyeet wrote: post #49

I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary. The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way? Let's dispense of th…

> The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way? Just because we needed and encouraged immigration 200 years ago doesn't mean we have a duty to never adjust policies based on current needs and realiti…

Pretty much every advanced economy is seeing stagnant population growth. Integrating immigrants is one of our most important skills and we need to keep practicing it.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#125

Post by lesuorac »

bumby wrote: post #26
satya71 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not any more than other patent applicants. Currently all the layers in patent application process is incentivized to ignore quality. 1. Large companies pay a bonus for every patent applied and bigger one for approval. 2. Patent lawyers are paid for filed patents. 3. Patent office makes money on each patent. They view the review process as a cost center and optimize it for fast approval.

> Currently all the layers in patent application process is incentivized to ignore quality. Not just "incentivized to ignore quality", they aren't duty-bound to consider quality at all. The PTO evaluates applications for novelty, not quality. The three main relevant parts of the US Code are: 35 USC Sec. 101: is it patentable? (i.e., it must be a process, machine, process, or manufactured good. It can't be something l…

I would disagree and claim the patent office is "incentivized to ignore quality".

The clerks are expected to do a certain amount of work per week and granting a patent counts as more work than denying a patent.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#126

Post by light_hue_1 »

edgyquant wrote: post #82
thenaturalist wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is not a zero sum game. The US created literally all relevant consumer technology in the last 30 or so years and demand for tech talent has exploded ever since. Having a competitve sector/ economy which regularly pushes the edge of innovation and hence expands demand (both on sell and supply side) is actually what keeps salaries up. This logic is as deeply flawed as often as it comes up.

Yes it is. Every foreign employee getting that tech job is a US citizen from the Midwest not getting it. Fuck this dishonest talking point, I know people coding since high school working at Toyota plants while people from overseas with entry level skill sets have employers move them to the west coast and land jobs (for whatever reason.) It’s favoritism, it’s cronyism, it’s a nation putting its own struggling people l…

This is the most clueless take here.

It is so obviously not zero sum. From Google to Yahoo to eBay to Palantir. None of those hundreds of thousands of jobs would exist without immigrants. Or they would be overseas.

I'm sorry for your friends who cannot get tech jobs. It's time to level up their skills. No competent developer can't find a job in this economy.

Stop blaming immigrants for your own shortcomings.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#127

Post by bsdpufferfish »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #109
bsdpufferfish wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The myth is that these measures must be taken because of "shortages of workers" when there are plenty of US citizens in STEM who are underemployed. This narrative is purely a lobbying effort.

> ... when there are plenty of US citizens in STEM who are underemployed. Where, exactly? Unemployment rate among STEM graduates is half of that of the general population [0]. Salaries are also substantially higher [1], and keep getting higher [2]. [0] https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23315/report/stem-unemployment... ). [1] https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23315/report/stem-median-wage-... . [2] https://www.newscientist.c…

Unemployment != underemployment.

So the unemployment rate in your first article is not relevant, missing labor participation rates etc.

The second article is about median wages of people who are already in jobs categorized as stem. Same with the third, which is also only about the derivative.

> Where, exactly?

The most prominent segment can be found by dropping the engineering and tech. Biology, math, physics, chemistry, etc. However even in engineering we find that the top grads move into software or finance.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#128

Post by lgleason »

danking00 wrote: post #30
lgleason wrote: post #4

Expect further downward pressure on US tech salaries.

People who gain citizenship are no longer in a precarious visa situation nor tied to their current employer. Moving people off visas and into PR/citizenship would seem to me to remove downward pressure on salaries. Heck, workers with PR/citizenship are probably more likely to unionize for higher wages because they feel safer.

You are forgetting the law of supply and demand. More supply and the same demand leads to lower prices.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#129

Post by light_hue_1 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #103
ketzo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intuitively, yes; factually (looking at the last 30 years of tech), categorically false. Tech begets tech, tech jobs beget tech jobs. Personally, I think we are not remotely close to “peak software” in particular.

But the increase in tech jobs doesn't benefit existing workers. Compare https://elaineou.com/2017/08/26/the-mystery-of-the-vanishing... : > According to this Joint Venture Silicon Valley report, 74% of Silicon Valley tech workers are foreign-born immigrants. A decade ago, 36% of Silicon Valley tech workers were born abroad. In 2000, only 29% were. > Tech industry employment has increased from about 300,000 jobs in 20…

Both you and the blog are conflating leaving the Bay Area with losing your job.

Yeah. A lot of people are leaving because of the housing insanity. That doesn't mean they're leaving teach and losing their jobs. There is zero evidence for that.

This isn't evidence for any impact on jobs. It's evidence for the mismanagement of the Bay Area and California as a whole.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#130

Post by abduhl »

xtreme wrote: post #59
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US citizen interested in improving the visa process who regularly interfaces with policymakers, propose an objective rubric that is better and I will get it in front of policymakers. Can't guarantee an outcome, will guarantee the effort. Patent quota is bullshit, but also "I know talent when I see it" (even though I do and how I hire) isn't going to fly. Sorting hats are hard, Goodhart's Law, etc. High level, yo…

You don't have to look far, Canada has already implemented a point based system for granting permanent residence to skilled workers. It assigns scores to applicants based on education, skills, employment offer, language speaking ability, etc. I believe it can be a good starting point for a more objective selection criteria than the current system which is more based on luck. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refug…

Trump attempted to implement a points based system and was met with fierce resistance:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/05/17/key-facts...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/06/h-1b-...

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