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My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

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Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#121
post #70

I've tried various Fediverse services such as Mastodon and Lemmy, and, based on my experience, I've noticed a stronger tendency towards censorship, self-censorship, and ingroup behavior. In comparison, platforms like Twitter and Reddit still feel freer. But overall, the best solution is to use your own website for everything. But too much censure really stifles social media.

Instead of "censorship", I'd say "moderation". To pick a random example, suppose you're on an instance run by, and dedicated to, right-wing politics. It may block connections from servers meant for and run by devout communists. The reverse would probably also be true. No one's saying fascists or communists can't run their own server. They're saying "I don't want to hear this stuff". It's legal to be an anti-Semite, b…

I don't think that paints a complete picture.

There's a shared covenant and there's shared block lists, both of which heavily influence what the norm is on the larger Mastodon network. Perhaps an even larger dynamic are activist-type admins that have an extremely low tolerance for content countering their political beliefs and will blackmail other admins into enforcing a block of a user or entire instance.

None of this is a shocking revelation as a large portion of older Mastodon users are known for their excessive safety-ism. It's a perpetual conflict on the network versus those that want to be more forgiving and pragmatic.

Anyway, the bottom line is that mainstream Mastodon is a left to far-left network, and content is moderated as such. The idea "just pick another server" doesn't really apply.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, federation works _great_ when the apps all have the same basic structure, and gets pretty rough otherwise. Mastodon instances basically _work great_ with each other, and with Friendica and Calckey too, since they have the same Twitter-like structure. Lemmy and Kbin - and all instances thereof - can chat with each other without issue too, since they have the communities + threads structure in common. But…

Do they really need to work that differently though? It seems to me that almost all of them can be represented as trees of text entries. Blog+comments, HN/reddit threads, Stackoverflow QAs, DMs, Discord/Slack, forums. These are all just text trees with optional attachments and/or links to other content (images and videos etc). Why not build that tree structure into the protocol (all you need is 1 parent and 0+ childr…

They absolutely do not. This is more of a state of the ecosystem sort of problem. I think a lot of developers were wary of getting into how some of the more esoteric AP objects should work. It's important to note too that while we have a standard in the form of AP a lot of the decisions about norms for these less common message types simply have not been made, but we are definitely moving in that direction as more services add AP integration.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#123

My problem with fediverse is that is not that well connected. There are some mastodon instances, but I am not sure if you are a user on one instance you have access to other instance. I am not sure if we have fediverse, or if we have isolated siloses. I am asking if that is the case.

I see people repeatedly misunderstand this aspect unfortunately, because it's hurting the adoption. It has no effect what instance you are on, you are all on Activity Pub. You can join any instance you want and it will be no different from joining any other instance. You can interact with anyone on any instance. This is just like how you only need to know my Email address to send me a message, you do not need to also…

There are incredibly important differences in user experience when picking one instance over the other.

A very small one has a large likelihood to disappear. Each instance has different moderation rules. On a small instance, you don't even see entire threads and lots of other stuff does not sync properly.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#124
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't someone make a Docker instance that, inside it, contains the 2-3 other docker instances? I hear it's docker all the way down.

Docker compose makes it relatively easy to coordinate multiple containers. But to answer your actual question, yes, that’s possible though definitely not recommended for standard hosting, it’s called DiD (docker in docker) and is fairly common for CIs.

I cannot fix my comment anymore, but I meant to write DinD.

See https://hub.docker.com/_/docker

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all your target users are comfortable with the tradeoffs of systems built on blockchains (ie private key is the source of authority), you're probably looking for Nostr.

Nostr is not built on a blockchain

Yeah sorry for those not familiar it probably sounds like I was saying that. I just meant to point out it has some of the same UX tradeoffs.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it's a pretty silly way to look at things in a world of docker compose.

Classic. Tools become too abstracted? Add a layer of abstraction to manage them. Feel like there must be an xkcd comic on this, but it doesn't leap to mind yet.

I mean, asking them to plop their cli docker setup into a yaml file isn't exactly a difficult task. I think it's probably more correct to consider docker-compose an integral part of docker rather than a superfluous abstraction layer.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't more people self host / host everything themselves these days in the age of privacy? Because it's a pain in the ass and people don't care enough to. People don't want the fediverse, they want an app. They don't want to know about cloud and infra primitives, they want their photos in their phone and for them to be safe and shareable. They want their iMessages and WhatsApp to JustWork(TM). > How can we make…

And even when you give them an app and basically spoonfeed them with the alternative, the small group that has come before will act like a bunch of elitist NIMBYs who will cry about their small "community losing character".

You write this as if the Eternal September problem doesn't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#128
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of "censorship", I'd say "moderation". To pick a random example, suppose you're on an instance run by, and dedicated to, right-wing politics. It may block connections from servers meant for and run by devout communists. The reverse would probably also be true. No one's saying fascists or communists can't run their own server. They're saying "I don't want to hear this stuff". It's legal to be an anti-Semite, b…

This is true, but it does reinforce and cement in- and out-group dynamics. You're more likely to be exposed to unfamiliar ideas on a place like Reddit, specifically because you don't _have_ to pick an explicit bubble. When picking a Lemmy instance, you kinda end up aligning yourself with some worldview, and letting some set of strangers curate your environment for you. Incidentally, that's sort of the weirdest part o…

I see what you're saying. OTOH, you can belong to several Lemmy instances at once. In that sense, it's kind of like phpBB. Which forum do I want to join? The set that covers my interests today! Maybe you like to argue about Star Trek vs Star Wars on a Sci-Fi Lemmy/phpBB, and learn to make soufflés the French Cuisine board of a Cooking Lemmy/phpBB. You don't have to join the Cooking instance and then limit yourself to looking for fellow chefs who also like Firefly.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of "censorship", I'd say "moderation". To pick a random example, suppose you're on an instance run by, and dedicated to, right-wing politics. It may block connections from servers meant for and run by devout communists. The reverse would probably also be true. No one's saying fascists or communists can't run their own server. They're saying "I don't want to hear this stuff". It's legal to be an anti-Semite, b…

I don't think that paints a complete picture. There's a shared covenant and there's shared block lists, both of which heavily influence what the norm is on the larger Mastodon network. Perhaps an even larger dynamic are activist-type admins that have an extremely low tolerance for content countering their political beliefs and will blackmail other admins into enforcing a block of a user or entire instance. None of th…

I vehemently disagree. In practice, I don't use those blocklists and neither do the neighbor instances we most heavily interact with. I'll occasionally hear from a friend that "new instance XYZ is sharing loli porn" or "instance ABC's moderators quit and now it's flooded with swastikas", and then I (and my neighbors) will verify whether that's true, and then disconnect those specific instances.

I also think mainstream Mastodon is only left to far-left in the median, because far-right instances tend to be more of a pain in the ass to be around than far-left ones, and thus get themselves banned more often. If there were far-left instances running around posting memes "joking" that we should kill minorities, I'm confident they'd also get disconnected quickly.

Put another way, I don't recall ever disconnecting with an instance because of its users' opinions, unless those opinions were utterly vile to the point that I'm completely unwilling to hear "their side of the argument". Most blocks are due to bad behavior, not unsavory thought.

Re: My Fediverse use – I'm hosting everything myself – PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that paints a complete picture. There's a shared covenant and there's shared block lists, both of which heavily influence what the norm is on the larger Mastodon network. Perhaps an even larger dynamic are activist-type admins that have an extremely low tolerance for content countering their political beliefs and will blackmail other admins into enforcing a block of a user or entire instance. None of th…

I vehemently disagree. In practice, I don't use those blocklists and neither do the neighbor instances we most heavily interact with. I'll occasionally hear from a friend that "new instance XYZ is sharing loli porn" or "instance ABC's moderators quit and now it's flooded with swastikas", and then I (and my neighbors) will verify whether that's true, and then disconnect those specific instances. I also think mainstrea…

I didn't mean to suggest that you're somehow unreasonable in how you run your server, I was mostly commenting on the larger concept of mainstream Mastodon.

Indeed, right to far-right doesn't stand a chance there so they get blocked. They effectively move to a darkweb situation where you never see their content unless you're really trying hard to look for it.

What remains, mainstream Mastodon, is moderated to the left, if not far-left. Or perhaps it's a very vocal far-left minority silencing the rest. It's of course not universal across the entire network, but roughly the vibe of the network.

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