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Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

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Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#121

Post by krick »

schemescape wrote: post #10

I didn't see it addressed here or in the article: this is a bug, right? Edit: oddly, after searching LLVM bugs, I found a bug that sounds pretty much exactly like this issue... but it's from 2012 and is closed (although the final couple of comments make it sound like maybe it wasn't actually fixed--note: I only skimmed the comments and I probably misunderstood): https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/13989 Edit…

Obviously it is a bug, but, apparently, author didn't bother to report it, opting to write a blogpost with a somewhat clickbait title and ending with "so weird" instead.

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#122

Post by nottorp »

dagmx wrote: post #113
nottorp wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t seem so sensational when it can’t build binaries for the target machine… on the target machine itself…

It can, it just doesn’t by default. Which is what the person you’re replying to is saying.

And... does it make sense to you... when you're not cross compiling?

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#123

Post by fsniper »

nottorp wrote: post #105
fsniper wrote: post #74

Title is unfortunately sensational. This is a default target change. Turns out clang still can build binaries for the Pi B+. You just need to be explicit about the architecture. So perhaps a small title change that's more clear about this being only default setting change?

Doesn’t seem so sensational when it can’t build binaries for the target machine… on the target machine itself…

Title suggests when using clang, built binaries can't be run on this device. It means it can't build for this architecture at all. But the post eloborates that it's possible to build for this architecture, it's just incorrectly targets another one. It would not matter if it's on the same architecture, or cross compiling. The capability is there. It requires you to be explicit about which architecture you are targeting.

A default for targeting is incorrect, and/or an architecture identification is buggy. But binaries built for Pi B+ - when using correct targeting arguments - can be run on Pi B+.

Now if the title is using wording that suggest a functionality is not there anymore vs the reality, where defaults or identification are incorrect, wouldn't that mean that is hunting for sensation?

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#124

Post by vkaku »

clang has been broken for a while in the last few versions. Many issues were left unfixed and development moved to 17.0.0 when they should have fixed those as point releases for 16.0.x instead (patches were available and not integrated).

In this particular case though, the end processor/native detection seems to be failing and clang feature detection gets armv7l as native (or could just be the default generation option). Looks like a good bug to report, if only we get the good clang folks who will take the time to land a fix.

I have been playing around with zig. My current focus will be on not using broken compiler backends for a while.

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#125

Post by brianshaler »

devmor wrote: post #114
rbanffy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of devices basically built on a DSP There were many X terminals running off nothing but a Texas 34010, which was a very DSP-like CPU that ended up in a lot of high-end graphics acceleration boards for PCs and Macs (and Unix workstations). The fact it could boot up an X server is quite extraordinary. I wonder what the VideoCore looks like to the programmer.

Sidebar but it’s very annoying how it now takes me a moment to think if people are talking about a social media website or an open source graphical server when I see “X” being discussed in a tech context.

With rare exceptions, the social media website tends to be referred to as "X formerly Twitter" or just "Twitter" for short

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#126

Post by dagmx »

nottorp wrote: post #122
dagmx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can, it just doesn’t by default. Which is what the person you’re replying to is saying.

And... does it make sense to you... when you're not cross compiling?

The point is that it objectively CAN compile to the right target. The capability is not broken.

It however DOESNT due to a configuration bug. Therefore it doesn’t have to make sense because it’s clearly not intentional.

your sentence saying “it can’t build” is therefore incorrect. It’s the distinction between the two capitalized words above.

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#128

Post by vkaku »

stephen_g wrote: post #22

Wow, looking at the history of the ARM generation the original versions of the Raspberry Pi uses, it’s hard to believe it’s so old! When the Raspberry Pi B+ was released (2014), the ARM core it used was already 11 years old (using the ARM1176 core from 2003). So it’s not unbelievable that you might need to start supplying an arch flag to produce compatible code building on a different platform (like the newer Raspber…

It was meant to be a low price computer.

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#129

Post by wmf »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #30
stephen_g wrote: post #22

Wow, looking at the history of the ARM generation the original versions of the Raspberry Pi uses, it’s hard to believe it’s so old! When the Raspberry Pi B+ was released (2014), the ARM core it used was already 11 years old (using the ARM1176 core from 2003). So it’s not unbelievable that you might need to start supplying an arch flag to produce compatible code building on a different platform (like the newer Raspber…

> When the Raspberry Pi B+ was released (2014), the ARM core it used was already 11 years old (using the ARM1176 core from 2003). IIRC the original Pi used leftover chips from a TV box, which is the kind of product that IME never ships more compute than they have to, for price reasons.

never ships more compute than they have to

ARM keeps releasing newer slow cores that support the latest instructions; for example the Cortex-A5 was available and the RPi 1 really should have used that.

Re: Clang now makes binaries an original Pi B+ can't run

#130

Post by deathanatos »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #120
jeffparsons wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And kiosks, like the McDonald's ordering kiosks. I wouldn't be surprised if they spend more on installation than on building the device itself!

My personal peeve is the original Coke Freestyle machines which are overtaxed WinCE systems meant to run with a lower resolution PDA display. They've never resolved all the gross latency issues with them and even the new Freestyle machines are laggy compared to the older Pepsi spire dispensers which could generate fluid full motion video years earlier.

God, yes. Every time I use one of these forsaken machines I can't help but wonder during the long latency pauses "did anyone use this before they shipped it?"
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