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No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

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Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#121

Post by beAbU »

GuB-42 wrote: post #80
TacticalCoder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... as mentioned in page 573 of the terms and conditions users have agreed with Except that it's not how EULA do work. If it's made illegal by law (which GP suggess), then lawyers writing these EULAs can write anything they want in fineprint: it's not superseding the law.

You can't make this blanket illegal. For example, if you buy something online, the seller will need to share your address with the delivery company, unless they do the delivery themselves, with is impractical most of the times. So you can make laws regarding the transfer of personal information, but these are bound to be really complicated, just look at GDPR.

But that's not the same? The online retailer is /giving/ my address to the courier. Without it the retailer nor the courier will be able to give me the service/product I'm paying for.

I think it's perfectly fine to make ‐reselling‐ of personal data blanket illegal. Since it's my data, I might have consented to giving the data to someone for some purpose. However, they absolutely have no implied consent that they can sell that data to someone else, no matter what their EULA says. If they want to sell it, then I need to get a dividend of that sale revenue, since it's my data.

This is not a physical good that's changing owners. It will always be irrevocably linked to /me/. That's what makes it valuable. So the owner of that data will forever and always be me, no matter who "bought" it. Exactly the same way that buying a digital game does not make me an owner of that copy, but merely the owner of a perpetual-yet-revokable license to play the game on my sanctioned console.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#122

Post by vasco »

pyuser583 wrote: post #90
sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

> Not that it makes much of a difference for me, since I'm not an US citizen The NSA exists to spy on non-citizens, so it affects you more.

Yes but that is a fact of life for anyone that isn't a US citizen, to live under the good will of the largest army in the world which forces policy, laws, war etc on everyone else. That our comms are spied on is "just another" thing.

I'm actually pretty fond of the US, love to visit and the culture - but not realizing we're all just living under the US empire is a bit naive. The US does whatever it wants and everyone else just accepts. Basic things such as voting against the international criminal court and having law allowing it to invade The Netherlands if it ever prosecuted a US war criminal is a funny example, but there are many more.

And it also does good things for the world as well, it's not all good or all bad, but it is the largest empire in the world, with military bases all around, colonies all over the pacific, etc, we just don't talk about it like that usually.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#123

Post by krapp »

willy_k wrote: post #73
krapp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What? If you mean Trump, I think it’s pretty dishonest or at best ignorant to liken them to each other. He absolutely has his flaws, tons of them, but categorically excluding him from the discussion isn’t justified.

I mean both. I feel like Trump's flaws, crimes and Project 2025 [0,1] should exclude him from discussion. Like, he should be politically radioactive at this point. Set all of that lunacy aside and Trump is just a mainstream Republican.

Not that I like Biden, mind you, I just hate him less than Trump. They're both imperialist, capitalist bastards but Biden is at least less fascism-adjacent.

The problem is that our first past the post, two party (in practice) system means most of the "discussion" we could have is meaningless. The candidates and most of the votes were already locked in well before any campaigning even took place. Biden vs Trump 2 Electric Boogaloo was a fait accompli. Most people will vote red pill or blue pill.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

[1]https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/19/project-20...

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#124

Post by morkalork »

Dalewyn wrote: post #117
phpisthebest wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say is true in practice, it is based on a completely incorrect reading of the constitution by the US Court system The constitutional prohibitions should be applied to all government actions no matter where they are in the world, not just the land that is the US, as such the government prohibition on search should apply to all government agencies world wide. In short if it illegal for the NSA to spy on…

You are massively confused. The Constitution gives certain powers to the government at the pleasure of the governed (read: Americans) and affords protections to them while providing none to foreigners (read: those who aren't governed by the US government). Re-read what I said and re-read the Constitution too if you have time, the Constitution's protections and guarantees apply to individuals and whether they are Amer…

Is this the same line of reasoning that lead to things extraordinary rendition and black sites in GWOT? Non US citizens on non US land, thus the government can do whatever they want like detain people indefinitely and "enhanced interrogation"?

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#125

Post by NickC25 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #106
nehal3m wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's the case. The first line of the article reads: Is the NSA buying up Americans' location and browsing data? That's what's blocking instatement of a new director, so no, it won't have any effect on the data collected on foreigners.

Americans are Constitutionally guaranteed a right to privacy in the home, among other rights, and that's what the NSA is hung up on. The NSA spying on foreigners, who enjoy no protections from the Constitution, is part of its intended agenda.

The NSA as it exists is essentially the government telling you the 4th Amendment is just for show. The NSA takes broad measures under the blanket of "national security" and through its 5 Eyes partners, can pretty much do as it pleases, either with US Citizens, or foreign citizens.

EDIT: Former NSA directors have deliberately lied under oath to Congress about their activities and actions...with no penalty or rebuke. The NSA are above the law and constitution.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#126

Post by lern_too_spel »

salawat wrote: post #112
worewood wrote: post #79

So it's like a canary: the senator has the answer but wants to make it public. If the answer was "no" then he wouldn't be pushing for it, so the answer is obviously yes, they are buying data of american citizens in bulk, warrantlessly

No. The Senator does not have the answer. They couldn't ask the question if they'd already signed the appropriate contracts on which access to SCI or other classified info is underpinned, If they had, asking the question would amount to a tacit disclosure. Other Senators who have signed those documents have confirmed as much. Once the IC gets burned by you, even if they don't press charges due to political impossibil…

Wyden is on the Senate Intelligence Committee. As such, he is guaranteed by law to have access to all intelligence activities. https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/about

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#127

Post by joe_the_user »

sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

I'm entire unfond of the NSA. The existence of secret agencies, especially on a large scale, make a mockery of democracy.

At the same, government by congressional hobbling and sabotage also makes a mockery of democracy through agencies not ceasing bad behavior but rather a continuous war between congress and agencies being normalized in a way that makes agencies actually more autonomous from congress. The "Washington Monument Syndrome" is just one piece of the problematic situation [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_syndrome

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#128

Post by Eumenes »

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Wyden for President.

This guy is wrong about every single thing, except government surveillance/spying. Example, he supported the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S.720) which criminalizes boycott and divestment activism by U.S. citizens against the State of Israel

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#129

Post by spacephysics »

bilbo0s wrote: post #105
worewood wrote: post #79

So it's like a canary: the senator has the answer but wants to make it public. If the answer was "no" then he wouldn't be pushing for it, so the answer is obviously yes, they are buying data of american citizens in bulk, warrantlessly

Even if that's true, the mitigation is not to sell it. Even better, forbid its collection. This is all theater. The answers are obvious and easy to legislate. Simply forbid the practice of collecting the data in the first place. But they won't. The fact is they want these companies to collect and aggregate our data. But recently privacy advocates have been asking for a ban on that practice. So the corrupt politicians…

But I think there’s additional layers at play here.

Its less of the logistics of outlawing it, it seems this is more akin to “sunlight is the best disinfectant”

I wouldn’t be surprised if this senator doesn’t have the backing or the political capital to pull this off successfully (just submitting legislature vs withholding appointment)

I think anything that can be exposed to more mainstream viewers has a higher likelihood of getting “better” sooner. (“Better” being highly relative)

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#130

Post by cyanydeez »

sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

yeah, this is a sideshow compared to just enforcing better privacy controls.
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