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Ansel

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Re: Ansel

#121

Post by flogoe »

aoeusnth1 wrote: post #78

I can't get this to build for MacOS, has anyone succeeded? I ran the brew commands from the mac-nightly CI script, did `git submodule init; git submodule update` and get this error running `build.sh`: ``` $ sh build.sh --build-type Release --install --sudo --clean-all; In file included from /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX14.0.sdk/usr/include/cups/http.h:39: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/Mac…

Did you see the OS Support section in the README [0]? I tried for about 15 minutes and didn't get it to build. And even if it did, it would probably not be stable enough to use for anything productively.

[0] https://github.com/aurelienpierreeng/ansel#os-support

Re: Ansel

#122

Post by [deleted] »

jug wrote: post #119

Haha, I love his a bit unprofessional tone. :D So much pent up anger - and I understand! Darktable has a strange approach to evolving their software. They somehow keep everything old and bad as they add improved versions and you end up with tons of ways to do very similar things, and to add to this mess, Darktable often uses its own nomenclature, or a very very technical one. If you're coming from Lightroom or Captur…

[deleted]

Re: Ansel

#123

Post by ishanmahapatra »

merelysounds wrote: post #103

I’ve used Darktable and would happily try Ansel. But in recent years ios compatibility became an important feature for me. My camera can send raw files to my phone wirelessly, with an ios app I can edit them on site and have a draft ready instantly. This is especially useful for events or anything time sensitive - but convenient in other use cases as well. Still, I have good memories of Darktable and the author’s fil…

Agreed. iOS integration is really key for me. But I can understand that the developer doesn’t have an Apple device and isn’t interested in personally supporting it because of the cost and Apple’s attitude towards open source.

Re: Ansel

#124

Post by simulo »

renjimen wrote: post #28

Looks good, I'll give it a whirl. I could never figure out a good darktable workflow. The UI seemed all over the place with some basic features missing and way too bloated in certain areas that I imagine 99% of users would never touch. Hopefully Ansel has figured out a better feature balance and UI. My current Linux photo processing tool is Another RawTherapee [1], which is a wonderful blend of the power of RawTherap…

I also throught of ART as a fork of RawTherapee, also forked with the aim to make it easier to use.

I wondered if that is something hard to avoid: Over time features get added, usability worsens. This might be general, but it could apply to FOSS in particular, which often takes a modular approach (cue UNIX philosophy) and rarely includes structures where potentially useful features are rejected in order to keep the whole experience simple.

Re: Ansel

#125

Post by nneonneo »

okl wrote: post #22
orbital-decay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is the "Dr. Rant" (his own words) of Darktable, so a lot of what he says is probably exaggerated. A lot of it isn't, though - Darktable does indeed lack focus and direction lately, leading to unnecessary bloat and unresolved issues. In other words, typical FOSS problems that sometimes lead to a fork.

Author has a blog post here, https://ansel.photos/en/news/darktable-dans-le-mur-au-ralent... , which exhibits some example code, for example, this: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/blob/darktable-4.... That's a far cry from what I'd find acceptable in any project.

The author is not wrong, the code really is crazy. Here's another random snippet from the ugly rewrite:

    for(char relative[] = "-2"; (relative[0] ^= '+' ^ '-') == '-' || ++relative[1]
This is just pure excess cleverness. It's not even obvious how many times this loop runs for. There's a comment 1000 lines away that says this:

    #define NUM_INSTANCES 5 // or 3, but change char relative[] = "-2" to "-1"
This is just insanely unmaintainable code. If a string is warranted I would have just done the "stupid" thing with a `sprintf(buf, "%+d", relative);` to make it obviously correct, even if it seems "slower".

Re: Ansel

#126

Post by cchance »

chefandy wrote: post #76
jillesvangurp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aurelian's youtube channel is pretty insightful. He explains a lot of what is behind the scene referred modules. And as you say, he has been driving a lot of that work. I've been using Darktable for many years for all my photo editing and it has improved massively in the last few years. He does a great job explaining how raw file processing works (in any raw photo processing tool) and how Darktable does it. https://w…

I'm not familiar with the software, but generally, I get why he left to go do his own thing. I've made a few forks of a few projects over the years considering it. I'm perpetually in the process of beating this dead horse, but FOSS would have so so many banging gold-standard user-facing apps if they enlisted the help of experienced UI or maybe UX designers and really worked to make them part of the community. To do t…

I don't think i've ever agreed more with someone on here. I'm really not sure if its a case of UX/UI and art people not being willing or not seeing the demand in the FOSS community or FOSS communities to seek out those people to participate but dear god so many good FOSS projects just have horrid UI/UX because the guys doing these projects are great at backend but horrid at frontend, things like amazing AI apps just thrown in streamlit and called a day drive me nuts.

Re: Ansel

#127

Post by cchance »

ungamedplayer wrote: post #99
chefandy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the software, but generally, I get why he left to go do his own thing. I've made a few forks of a few projects over the years considering it. I'm perpetually in the process of beating this dead horse, but FOSS would have so so many banging gold-standard user-facing apps if they enlisted the help of experienced UI or maybe UX designers and really worked to make them part of the community. To do t…

> FOSS would have so so many banging gold-standard user-facing apps if they enlisted the help of experienced UI or maybe UX designers . And here lies the rub. I have tried soliciting help in the past . Most ui UX ppl only want to work on successful projects, but successful projects don't need help from ux/UI people.

This is what i kinda figured to be the case, UI/UX and generally artists don't seem to participate in projects as much for free or for projects that aren't already successful where they'll get some publicity out of especially on the art side of things.

Re: Ansel

#128

Post by brudgers »

ISL wrote: post #80
brudgers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire his work. But as a Darktable user, I found the implementations of strong opinions frustrating because I value actual workflow above potential technical superiority. Display referred worked fine for me because the important work happens before the shutter is clicked. The skill I want to develop is fixing things in the lens not fixing them in post. Breaking changes suck. But again open source developers don’t…

The legacy editing workflows are generally, if not entirely, still available in Darktable. I haven't yet encountered a defect in my old edits on new versions of Darktable.

My workflow was broken by the changes.

Maybe I could have done a bunch of customization to get it back.

But it would not have been back because my workflow didn’t involve a bunch of customization.

The changes force imposed a mass of non-artistic complexity into my workflow.

The changes didn’t improve my pictures because my results were already good enough for my artistic intent.

Nobody ever looked at a print and wept because it was developed with scene referenced workflow…

Re: Ansel

#129

Post by codethief »

Tomte wrote: post #81
nas wrote: post #8

This is the work of a former "darktable" developer (Aurélien Pierre) who decided to fork the codebase and go it alone. He has strong opinions about the correct way to do things. I like some of the cleanup on the UI that he has done. For now, Ansel and darktable are compatible in terms of the underlying database. So you can easily switch back and forth between them. If the fork diverges significantly, it would be more…

> moving away from a "display-referred" to a "scene-referred" workflow What is that? Edit: they have a page about it: https://ansel.photos/en/workflows/scene-referred/

Very interesting, thanks for sharing the link!

Re: Ansel

#130

Post by codethief »

chefandy wrote: post #76
jillesvangurp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aurelian's youtube channel is pretty insightful. He explains a lot of what is behind the scene referred modules. And as you say, he has been driving a lot of that work. I've been using Darktable for many years for all my photo editing and it has improved massively in the last few years. He does a great job explaining how raw file processing works (in any raw photo processing tool) and how Darktable does it. https://w…

I'm not familiar with the software, but generally, I get why he left to go do his own thing. I've made a few forks of a few projects over the years considering it. I'm perpetually in the process of beating this dead horse, but FOSS would have so so many banging gold-standard user-facing apps if they enlisted the help of experienced UI or maybe UX designers and really worked to make them part of the community. To do t…

> It would be like a team of civil engineers working on a restaurant design scoffing at an architect […] Meanwhile, everyone else that has to interact with that kitchen suffers.

> chefandy

Name checks out :-)

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