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.NET Blazor

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Re: .NET Blazor

#121

Post by resoluteteeth »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #111
mastry wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There actually are several C# to JavaScript transpilers out there but none are well-maintained with a strong following (compared to Fable). Some examples are... https://github.com/theolivenbaum/h5 https://www.dice.com/career-advice/exploring-bridge-net-c-ja... https://www.infoq.com/news/2015/02/duocode-csharp-javascript... http://jsil.org I wonder if the community just isn't interested in this approach.

It is far beyond just using C# to javascript. That would just maintain the same way of thinking. The functional approach uses entire different structure. It isn't just a transpiler.

It's not really different. If you use .razor files it hides the way state mutation works so it superficially looks more imperative (I guess so it isn't scary to people who are used to server rendered razor templates in asp.net) but it's basically the same as MVU/react/elmish/whatever in f#/fable just without explicit update messages.

You can trivially build something that looks exactly like elm/elmish on top of blazor if you just organize your code that way.

Also, I like fable but you have to be careful about what .net features you use because it's transpiled and the standard library is reimplemented (there's lots of stuff that hasn't been implemented). Blazor has better compatibility and you can use pretty much anything in .net and even native code that has been compiled to WASM.

So 1) there's no good reason to abandon blazor for something more like fable in terms of being transpiled to javascript, since wasm will only be more mature, and 2) if you want something that looks more functional like f# with elmish you can easily get that on top of blazor.

(There is even something similar to fable/elmish on top of blazor for f# (Bolero) but you could do the same thing in c# too).

Re: .NET Blazor

#123

Post by michaelteter »

louthy wrote: post #120
kumarvvr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. With evolution of the web, ASP.NET too has evolved quite a bit. Building a simple web app with Razor pages is incredibly easy and the output is fast and scalable. Their WebAPI in ASP.NET is very good. Blazor is an additional way to do web apps, but very much in line with the structure and core of ASP.NET. In the desktop world, MS has jumped a lot of…

> When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. What's your definition of 'forever'? Are you talking about ASP, or ASP.NET, or ASP.NET Core? Or, Web Forms, MVC1, MVC2, MVC3, Silverlight, 'minimal APIs'? ... Honestly, it's just one clusterfuck after another. --- EDIT: There's a number of sub-comments here that seem to be missing the point. So, I'll expand here: * For those who are questioning my…

Have you been to JavaScript land in a while?

Re: .NET Blazor

#124

Post by louthy »

michaelteter wrote: post #123
louthy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. What's your definition of 'forever'? Are you talking about ASP, or ASP.NET, or ASP.NET Core? Or, Web Forms, MVC1, MVC2, MVC3, Silverlight, 'minimal APIs'? ... Honestly, it's just one clusterfuck after another. --- EDIT: There's a number of sub-comments here that seem to be missing the point. So, I'll expand here: * For those who are questioning my…

Have you been to JavaScript land in a while?

Sure, do you have a point you'd like to make?

Re: .NET Blazor

#125

Post by bsuvc »

Here is my personal experience.

I've been working on a large-ish Blazor (Server) application for about a year. The choice to use Blazor was not mine, but I went into it with an open mind. For context, I have used React and Angular in the past.

I will never used Blazor again.

Performance is not good, with CPU always at some base level, even when idle. My machines fan is always cranking while developing it. Hot reload does not work consistently (on like 25% of the time), and when it does, it is slow, so it might as well not work at all. Everything in Blazor just feels half-baked.

I'm old enough to remember things like "ActiveX Documents" and Silverlight, where were other attempts by Microsoft to provide a way for people not to have to learn and use a proper front end framework, and I think Blazor will end up on the scrap heap with them.

Microsoft has a bad habit of touting the next big thing for developers to use and then abandoning it several years later. This feels like that to me.

Re: .NET Blazor

#126

Post by eddythompson80 »

louthy wrote: post #120
kumarvvr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. With evolution of the web, ASP.NET too has evolved quite a bit. Building a simple web app with Razor pages is incredibly easy and the output is fast and scalable. Their WebAPI in ASP.NET is very good. Blazor is an additional way to do web apps, but very much in line with the structure and core of ASP.NET. In the desktop world, MS has jumped a lot of…

> When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. What's your definition of 'forever'? Are you talking about ASP, or ASP.NET, or ASP.NET Core? Or, Web Forms, MVC1, MVC2, MVC3, Silverlight, 'minimal APIs'? ... Honestly, it's just one clusterfuck after another. --- EDIT: There's a number of sub-comments here that seem to be missing the point. So, I'll expand here: * For those who are questioning my…

A lot of these frameworks either composed together or had an upgrade path where it made sense. Plus if you're structuring your application right in .net, that web layer becomes another interface. I have taken an application across a few of those with some fuss, but you're covering 20+ years of development there.

Re: .NET Blazor

#127

Post by unusualmonkey »

louthy wrote: post #120
kumarvvr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. With evolution of the web, ASP.NET too has evolved quite a bit. Building a simple web app with Razor pages is incredibly easy and the output is fast and scalable. Their WebAPI in ASP.NET is very good. Blazor is an additional way to do web apps, but very much in line with the structure and core of ASP.NET. In the desktop world, MS has jumped a lot of…

> When it comes to web, MS has been focused on ASP.NET since forever. What's your definition of 'forever'? Are you talking about ASP, or ASP.NET, or ASP.NET Core? Or, Web Forms, MVC1, MVC2, MVC3, Silverlight, 'minimal APIs'? ... Honestly, it's just one clusterfuck after another. --- EDIT: There's a number of sub-comments here that seem to be missing the point. So, I'll expand here: * For those who are questioning my…

Have you used those technologies?

Asp.netbwas great, asp.net cire was a good upgrade, and minimal apis are an optional way to get an asp project up and running with less boilerplate.

Not sure how that constitutes a cluster.

Re: .NET Blazor

#128

Post by brtkdotse »

kumarvvr wrote: post #113

All the dis-advantages are not relevant for enterprise LOB apps, which Blazor is best suited for. Millions of .NET developers across the enterprise world are heaving a sigh of relief to never have to touch JS and be cozy and comfortable in their .NET ecosystem. With the latest addition of fully SSR, Blazor is also well suited for CMS, Blogs, Content Mills, small web apps, portfolio sites, etc. But, as a developer who…

> I don't have to maintain the cognitive overhead of translating domain models into JSON models and vice versa.

I’m more happy about not having to maintain working knowledge of two sets of IDEs, build tools, CI/CD pipelines, hosting models and testing framework and conventions.

Re: .NET Blazor

#129

Post by brtkdotse »

LaGrange wrote: post #118
kumarvvr wrote: post #113

All the dis-advantages are not relevant for enterprise LOB apps, which Blazor is best suited for. Millions of .NET developers across the enterprise world are heaving a sigh of relief to never have to touch JS and be cozy and comfortable in their .NET ecosystem. With the latest addition of fully SSR, Blazor is also well suited for CMS, Blogs, Content Mills, small web apps, portfolio sites, etc. But, as a developer who…

> All the dis-advantages are not relevant for enterprise LOB apps, which Blazor is best suited for. The disadvantages: the _actual user_ is going to have a horrible time with the application. It will load slowly, work slowly, probably break the moment you inevitably will have to touch JS, and if the browser the user hates anyway is out of sync with the forced updates, the entire thing will blow up. But enterprise LOB…

> It will load slowly, work slowly

Why do you think this will be the case?

Re: .NET Blazor

#130

Post by andsoitis »

bsuvc wrote: post #125

Here is my personal experience. I've been working on a large-ish Blazor (Server) application for about a year. The choice to use Blazor was not mine, but I went into it with an open mind. For context, I have used React and Angular in the past. I will never used Blazor again. Performance is not good, with CPU always at some base level, even when idle. My machines fan is always cranking while developing it. Hot reload…

> a proper front end framework

Do you think a WASM approach has merit or do you think it is doomed?

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