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Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

arstechnica.com

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Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#121

Post by hef19898 »

Draiken wrote: post #86
peter422 wrote: post #59

I know everybody is going nuts about this, but just from my personal perspective I’ve worked at a variety of companies with “important” CEOs, and in every single one of those cases had the CEO left I would not have cared at all. The CEO always gets way too much credit externally for what the company is doing, it does not mean the CEO is that important. OpenAI might be different, I don’t have any personal experience,…

Yeah this cult of CEOs is weird. It's such a small cohort that when someone doesn't completely blow it, they're immediately deemed as geniuses. Give someone billions of dollars and hundreds of brilliant engineers, researchers and many will make it work. But only a few ever get the chance, so this happens. They don't do any of the work. They just take the credit.

My last gig was with one of those wannabe Elon Musks (what wouldnI give to get wannabe Steve Jobs back). Horrible, ultimately he was ousted as CEO, only to be allowed to stay on as some head of innovation, because he and his founder buddies retained enough voting power to first get him a life time position as head of the board fir his "acievements" and then prevent his firing. They also vetoed, from ehat people told, a juicy acquisition offer, basically jeopardizing the future of the place. Right after, a new CEO was recruited as the result of a "lengthy and thoroughly planned process of transition". Now, the former CEO is back, and in charge, in fact and noz on paper, of the most crucial part of the product. Besides getting said company to 800 people burning a sweet billion, he didn't do anything else in his life, and that company has yet to launch a product.

Sad thing so, if they find enough people to continue investing, they will ultimately launch a product, most likely the early employees and founders will sell of their shares, become instant millionaires in the three figures and be hailed as thebtrue geniuses in their field... What an utter shit show that was...

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#122

Post by pknerd »

Waterluvian wrote: post #29

How important is Altman? How important were three senior scientists? Can they start their own company, raise funding, and overtake OpenAI in a few years? Or does OpenAI have some material advantage that isn’t likely to be harmed by this? Perhaps the competition is inevitably a good thing. Or maybe a bad thing if it creates pressure to cut ethical corners. I also wonder if the dream of an “open” org bringing this tech…

Let's not forget the role of Ilya to make gpt what it is today

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#123

Post by bsenftner »

Draiken wrote: post #86
peter422 wrote: post #59

I know everybody is going nuts about this, but just from my personal perspective I’ve worked at a variety of companies with “important” CEOs, and in every single one of those cases had the CEO left I would not have cared at all. The CEO always gets way too much credit externally for what the company is doing, it does not mean the CEO is that important. OpenAI might be different, I don’t have any personal experience,…

Yeah this cult of CEOs is weird. It's such a small cohort that when someone doesn't completely blow it, they're immediately deemed as geniuses. Give someone billions of dollars and hundreds of brilliant engineers, researchers and many will make it work. But only a few ever get the chance, so this happens. They don't do any of the work. They just take the credit.

> Yeah this cult of CEOs is weird.

Now imagine the weekend for those fired and those who quit OpenAI: you know they are talking together as a group, and meeting with others offering them billions to make a pure commercial new AI company.

An Oscar worthy film could be made about them in this weekend.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#124

Post by esafak »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #102
esafak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "don't extinguish humanity or leave most of them unemployed" is a principle everyone can get and stay behind.

You seem to have far more faith in others' ethical compass than I think is justified by historical evidence. It's amazing what people will do when the size of their paycheque (or ego) are tied to it. I don't trust anybody at OpenAI with the keys to the car, but democratic choice apparently doesn't play into it, so here we are.

I meant as a basic principle. Individuals and organizations who breach the pact can be punished by legal means.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#125

Post by wifipunk »

tempsy wrote: post #97
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that a money-fuelled war for AI talent is all the more likely to lead to unsafe AI. If OpenAI had remained the dominant leader, it could have very well set the standards for safety. But now if new competitors with equally good funding emerge, they won’t have the luxury of sitting on any breakthrough models.

I’m still wondering what unsafe AI even looks like in practical terms The only things I can think of is generated pornographic images of minors and revenge images (ex-partners, people you know). That kind of thing. More out there might be an AI based religion/cult.

When I hear people talk about unsafe ai, it’s usually in regard to bias and accountability. Certain aspects like misinformation are problems that can be solved, but people are easily fooled.

In my opinion the benefits heavily outweigh the risks. Photoshop has existed for decades now, and AI tools make it easier, but it was already pretty easy to produce a deep fake beforehand.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#126

Post by gmt2027 »

chancancode wrote: post #71

Jeremy Howard (of fast.ai): https://x.com/jeremyphoward/status/1725712220955586899 He is not exactly an insider, but seems broadly aligned/sympathetic/well-connected with the Ilya/researchers faction, his tweet/perspective was a useful proxy into what that split may have felt like internally.

https://nitter.net/jeremyphoward/status/1725712220955586899

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#127

Post by cwillu »

iamflimflam1 wrote: post #87

Everyone I speak to who have have been building on top of OpenAI - and I don’t mean just stupid chat apps - feel like the rug has just been pulled out from under them. If as it seems, dev day was the last straw, what does that say to all the devs?

Company with an unusual corporate structure designed specifically to be able to enforce an unpopular worldview, enforced that unpopular worldview.

I get that people feel disappointed, but I can't help but feel like those people were maybe being a bit wilfully blind to the parts of the company that they didn't understand/believe-in/believe-were-meant-seriously.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#128

Post by staticman2 »

thepasswordis wrote: post #21
staticman2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the good talent leave? Are they all a "family" and best buddies with Sam?

Perhaps they don’t want to work for a board of directors which is openly hostile to the work they’re doing?

The boarded sided with the chief scientist and co-founder of OpenAI in an internal dispute. How does that show hostility to the work OpenAI is doing?

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#129

Post by wolverine876 »

orbital-decay wrote: post #92
wolverine876 wrote: post #65

In the past, many on HN complained that OpenAI had abandoned its public good mission and had morphed into a psuedo-private for-profit. If that was your feeling before, what do you think now? Are you relieved or excited? Are you the dog who caught the car? At this point, on day 2, I am heartened that their mission was most important, even at the heart of the most important technology maybe ever or since nuclear power…

If the rumors are correct and ideological disagreement was at the core of this, OpenAI is not going to be open anyway, as Sutskever wants more safety, which implies being as closed as possible. Whether it's "public good" is in the eye of the beholder, as there are multiple mutually incompatible concerns about AI safety, all of which have merit. The future balance between those will be determined by unpredictable even…

> Whether it's "public good" is in the eye of the beholder

That's too easy an answer, used to dismiss difficult questions and embrace amorality. There is public good, sometimes easy to define and sometimes hard. If ChatGPT is used to cure cancer, that would be a public good. If it's used to create a new disease that millions, that's obviously bad. Obviously, some questions are harder than that, but it doesn't excuse us from answering them and getting it right.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#130

Post by cwillu »

layer8 wrote: post #119
FergusArgyll wrote: post #60

If the firing was because of a difference in "vision", then it doesn't really matter if Altman was key to making OpenAI so successful. Sutskever and co, don't want it to be successful (by market standards at least). If they get their way (past MSFT and others) then OpenAI will no longer be the cutting edge. Buy GOOGL?

It seems you are saying that anything that doesn’t put profit first can’t be successful.

By market standards. There will be no end to intended and unintended equivocation about this over the coming days.
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