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Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

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Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#121

Post by dylan604 »

nabla9 wrote: post #4

American companies often think that European unions are just stronger than unions in Europe. They don't realize that labor and union laws are different. Toys R Us tried the same in Sweden. They initially refused agreement and hired only non-union workers. But transport and logistics workers union and finance union started sympathy strike. Toys R Us didn't get deliveries and bank workers refused work related to compan…

I have issues with unions becoming way too powerful and prevent things from being done efficiently. I get certain aspects are safety related like needing an electrician to come in to wire up certain things. But I've had a friend that was a network installer that was allowed to mount the gear in the rack and wire in the low voltage ethernet cabling, but was not allowed to attache the power cord. That required the time of an electrician union member. On their schedule. After installing the gear, he had to wait doing nothing until this could happen. These types of rules are dumb, but show the overreaching power of unions.

There are plenty of stories/examples (so not just n=1) of these kinds of boneheaded rules that just make things very inefficient.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#122

Post by VoxPelli »

jorams wrote: post #116
VirusNewbie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except immigrants will come to the country and be willing to work for lower wages, they will be OK without taking the union benefits. Unions are a way to enrich current members by creating an exclusive cartel. How do you deal with the fact that there are people willing to work for less?

> How do you deal with the fact that there are people willing to work for less? The answer in the Netherlands is that for most industries that have one the collective agreement has been declared universally binding. It applies to everyone in that industry, whether they're a member of one of the bargaining organizations or not, and if a company ignores it they're breaking the law.

Same here in Sweden - when a company doesn’t have a collective agreement they also don’t have a right to have peace with the unions, so then the unions can put pressure on them to get a collective agreement and when that succeeds there will be a collective agreement that then apply to all employees

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#123

Post by VoxPelli »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #120
jorams wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you deal with the fact that there are people willing to work for less? The answer in the Netherlands is that for most industries that have one the collective agreement has been declared universally binding. It applies to everyone in that industry, whether they're a member of one of the bargaining organizations or not, and if a company ignores it they're breaking the law.

My point is you have a societal issue if you have thousands of workers migrating who are looking to work and willing to work for less. You can either choose to house and feed them and prevent them from working, or you can realize labor is cheaper.

We have no such race to the bottom here in Sweden

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#124

Post by VoxPelli »

Propelloni wrote: post #114
seee-I-Told-you wrote: post #20

Unions are a good thing, definately right now when the competition from "slave owners" in eastern Europe, China etc will exploit workers and outrun competition that way. For Tesla, with China's export of electric vehicle it would be a good thing to "set the bar" and prevent low cost workers from entering the market - hence securing Tesla's position in Sweden. And that's what the "Swedish model" of working is all abou…

Imagine European unions would export their "lower bars" by helping workers in other countries unionize. That would give globalisation a whole new meaning.

International solidarity between unions is a natural part of being a union

(Well, unless when you want to protect jobs from moving abroad, then the solidarity is gone. Eg. the German unions are great at ensuring that any job cuts happens in other European countries instead of in Germany)

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#125

Post by VoxPelli »

eddtries wrote: post #113
hef19898 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of government unemployment benefits? That is incredibly generous!

Actually I don’t know if they’re on top of or a total replacement, but even as a replacement I’m happy! I work as a consultant so it’s always a little risky finding clients, but my annual take home from the previous year covers the downtime And honestly I’d argue this fairly liberal approach encourages entrepreneurship because you have so many safety nets

It’s on top of, as the maximum you can get from public unemployment funds are capped fairly low nowadays and rarely reaches the intended 80%, hence why the unions steps in and offers extra insurance

Unions typically offer collectively bargained felt insurance and such here as well

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#126

Post by dagw »

hef19898 wrote: post #104
eddtries wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay a couple dollars a year in Sweden and my union offers unemployment insurance, 80% of my salary for six months if I’m laid off. I’m okay with that annual membership if that was all I got :)

On top of government unemployment benefits? That is incredibly generous!

No, it make sure your total unemployment benefits is 80% of what your salary used to be.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#127

Post by VoxPelli »

art3m wrote: post #61

Tesla built factory in Germany and hired thousands of workers while Volvo build new EX40 car completely in China. Just saying.

Volvo has factories in Sweden, Belgium, USA, China and maybe some additional one I have forgotten about. Their main one is in Gothenburg, Sweden.

The new EX30 will also be built in Belgium it was recently announced.

And Volvo is looking at building new factories in USA.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#128

Post by VoxPelli »

Alifatisk wrote: post #76
art3m wrote: post #61

Tesla built factory in Germany and hired thousands of workers while Volvo build new EX40 car completely in China. Just saying.

Volvo is chinese

Volvo Cars AB is a publicly traded Swedish company traded on the Stockholm stock exchange.

They have to comply with all relevant Swedish laws for a public Swedish company and all requirements imposed by the Stockholm stock exchange.

Geely Holding owns 82% of Volvo Cars AB according to recent data. Swedish pension companies AMF and Folksam are second and third largest owner with 3.8% and 2.0% of the votes.

So while Geely of course has a massive influence on the company, they can not do whatever they want, they have to abide by the rules and respect the other owners as well, and the other owners are also present on eg the board

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#129

Post by Gud »

hef19898 wrote: post #104
eddtries wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay a couple dollars a year in Sweden and my union offers unemployment insurance, 80% of my salary for six months if I’m laid off. I’m okay with that annual membership if that was all I got :)

On top of government unemployment benefits? That is incredibly generous!

Although this is often administered by a union, you don't have to be a union member to be a part of an A-kassa. Essentially, it's an unemployment insurance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_funds_in_Sweden

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#130

Post by basro »

avgcorrection wrote: post #33
readams wrote: post #24

[flagged]

Please explain how this is akin to organized crime. I’m dying to know.

I think I agree that it's akin to organized crime, it's a case of "the goal justifies the means".

You see the goal of forcing union usage as a noble thing so you agree with these means. If the goal was one that you don't see as noble you'd definitely agree that it's very organized crime like.

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