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macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

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Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#121

Post by AshamedCaptain »

userbinator wrote: post #101
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EFI config screens should be text mode only, full-stop. So they can easily be used over serial console redirection. Ran into one recently that was high-rez graphical. It needed a USB mouse to change critical settings because the tab order for the onscreen widgets didn't work. Anyone responsible for creating graphical EFI config screens should stop writing software for the good of humanity.

Text-only BIOS setup was the norm for a long time before the stupidly bloated EFI graphical stuff became common. Even then, there were the better full-featured TUIs: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Award_BI... https://liveusb.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/awardbios-firstb... And the simplified crap with tabs that often came with prebuilt PCs but later seems to have spread to others too: https://cdn.…

> Text-only BIOS setup was the norm for a long time

Long-time Thinkpad users scoff at that ... while the figure of a duck suddenly enters their minds..

(Yes: I clearly remember my pre-USB thinkpad having a graphical BIOS with windows, icons, and a duck-shaped mouse cursor).

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#123

Post by tpmx »

dm319 wrote: post #89
jwells89 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The messiness of resolutions during boot always annoyed me on PCs. It was understandable back in the days of BIOS, but ith the advent of UEFI it seems like it should be possible to run EFI config screens and the like at monitor native rez (or at minimum, native aspect ratio) but I’ve never seen this… it’s always 1024x768 or somesuch stretched to fit a 16:9 monitor which looks awful.

My Amiga in the 1990s seemed to do a pretty good job at boot.

As did pretty much any PC motherboard/CPU/GPU combination from the past 25 years.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#124

Post by londons_explore »

lxgr wrote: post #117
londons_explore wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises the question even more why the refresh rate matters during early bootup - surely you could just start with an apple logo and a 1 Hz refresh rate, and then up the rate later during boot when it's time to do some animation...

Changing the refresh rate makes the screen go blank for a second or so. GP of this thread links to a post arguing that Apple is going out of their way to avoid just that during the boot sequence.

Except it doesn't... because during use the dynamic refresh rate changes between 1Hz and 120Hz...

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#125

Post by lxgr »

londons_explore wrote: post #124
lxgr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the refresh rate makes the screen go blank for a second or so. GP of this thread links to a post arguing that Apple is going out of their way to avoid just that during the boot sequence.

Except it doesn't... because during use the dynamic refresh rate changes between 1Hz and 120Hz...

Well, I can only tell you what happens when you manually change the resolution from 60 Hz to "ProMotion" in macOS.

Presumably ProMotion is a specific mode that the display/display controller/... first needs to be set to. If you start out in anything other than that and then switch to it later in the boot process, you'd get that blank screen for a second, and Apple avoids that by writing the startup mode to non-volatile memory.

Otherwise they could also just always start out in ProMotion mode – but then you'd get flicker every time you (re)boot into any other mode, like 60 Hz for people who prefer that.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#126

Post by kppullin »

mstep wrote: post #17

does anyone have info if this is fixed in ventura 13.6.1? https://support.apple.com/de-at/HT213985

I just installed 13.6.1 on an M1 MacBook Pro and am now facing the boot issue, so I'm guessing it's not fixed :). To make matters worse, the specific USB port required for the DFU revive fix is broken as well, which was never an issue as the other two worked... oof.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#127

Post by bscphil »

londons_explore wrote: post #124
lxgr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the refresh rate makes the screen go blank for a second or so. GP of this thread links to a post arguing that Apple is going out of their way to avoid just that during the boot sequence.

Except it doesn't... because during use the dynamic refresh rate changes between 1Hz and 120Hz...

If I understand correctly, ProMotion is the feature that allows dynamically changing the refresh rate without screen blanking. So the reason refresh rate matters in early bootup is that if ProMotion is not enabled, you get brief screen blanking. Setting the screen to 1 Hz in early bootup and then changing it to the user setting later would require screen blanking.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#128

Post by Wowfunhappy »

lxgr wrote: post #125
londons_explore wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it doesn't... because during use the dynamic refresh rate changes between 1Hz and 120Hz...

Well, I can only tell you what happens when you manually change the resolution from 60 Hz to "ProMotion" in macOS. Presumably ProMotion is a specific mode that the display/display controller/... first needs to be set to. If you start out in anything other than that and then switch to it later in the boot process, you'd get that blank screen for a second, and Apple avoids that by writing the startup mode to non-volati…

...so this is where I'm confused, and where I think GP is confused. Why is there a separate 60 Hz mode that requires blanking the display? Why not just keep dynamic refresh enabled on the panel, and then lock it to updating 60 times per second (which it can do, since it's dynamic) for people who prefer that for whatever reason? What is the difference?

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#129

Post by postmodest »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #54
jwells89 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The messiness of resolutions during boot always annoyed me on PCs. It was understandable back in the days of BIOS, but ith the advent of UEFI it seems like it should be possible to run EFI config screens and the like at monitor native rez (or at minimum, native aspect ratio) but I’ve never seen this… it’s always 1024x768 or somesuch stretched to fit a 16:9 monitor which looks awful.

EFI config screens should be text mode only, full-stop. So they can easily be used over serial console redirection. Ran into one recently that was high-rez graphical. It needed a USB mouse to change critical settings because the tab order for the onscreen widgets didn't work. Anyone responsible for creating graphical EFI config screens should stop writing software for the good of humanity.

Real boot loaders have embedded Forth interpreters!

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#130

Post by coldtea »

fsflover wrote: post #69
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the "/troll"? You're 100% right non-ironically: the problem being that on Linux the need to consult forum posts to fix these kind of issues is way more frequent than in macOS.

On Linux it's as rare as on MacOS, if you buy preinstalled .

As long as you don't do anything with it on your own.
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