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Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

nytimes.com

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Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#121

Post by Etheryte »

Delokoloololo wrote: post #111

I still don't think we as a society are allowed to completly ban any drugs. A society might be allowed to have safety mechanism in place but otherwise nothing else.

While I see where you're coming from, how do you address the healthcare gap? I agree with personal freedom of choice and choosing your own risk tolerance, but as a society we collectively pay for the healthcare costs of those who fall through the cracks and go too far. This problem isn't unique to drugs in any way, we face the same problem with e.g. excessive alcohol use, and there the problem is also largely unsolved.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#122

Post by caskstrength »

suzzer99 wrote: post #16
uoaei wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know that the microdosing also turned into macrodosing on a lot of occasions. It's pretty easy to slip into this. I don't have a good answer for solving this but criminalization is definitely a bad answer, so we will have to find a way to discourage such tendencies. It may be that it is mostly or entirely a cultural thing in which case public understanding of the drug is a prerequisite, so I'm glad more are star…

Yeah I'm not arguing shrooms should be illegal. I don't think they're any worse than pot, and actually are the one drug I think everyone should do. But I think there are some serious risks to heavy, prolonged use that probably aren't well-studied or understood. Also for all I know her problems stem from the acid and not the shrooms.

What about risks of prolonged incarceration? Especially in US prison?

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#123

Post by Etheryte »

grammers wrote: post #82

They've had them in Holland decades ago. Tried them once, was the craziest movie experience I've ever had and didn't feel like repeating this ever again.

I think this is an important distinction many people who are not familiar with the matter miss, psilocybin is not a party drug. I would say psilocybin is closer to say ayahuasca than it is to MDMA or other similar things. A good analogy I once heard is that on party drugs, you're figuratively behind the driver's wheel, whereas on psilocybin you're along for the drive and you'll see where it takes you.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#124

Post by Delokoloololo »

Etheryte wrote: post #121
Delokoloololo wrote: post #111

I still don't think we as a society are allowed to completly ban any drugs. A society might be allowed to have safety mechanism in place but otherwise nothing else.

While I see where you're coming from, how do you address the healthcare gap? I agree with personal freedom of choice and choosing your own risk tolerance, but as a society we collectively pay for the healthcare costs of those who fall through the cracks and go too far. This problem isn't unique to drugs in any way, we face the same problem with e.g. excessive alcohol use, and there the problem is also largely unsolve…

It isn't fair to begin with.

A athletic person gets health care, a fat person gets health care.

In worst case we just triage.

But this would definitely be something the society would be allowed to regulate:

The society can say 'you can take any drug you want but if you take x you become second in line'

That would be transparent and fair but we don't even have this type of discussion.

And while I get Ritalin from my doctor the other one is with one leg in prison for either speed or crystal.

At the end of the day keeping this hidden is more of a problem than not. Educating people is critical but no one feels educated by police.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#125

Post by ChatGTP »

achenet wrote: post #95
ChatGTP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say the drug use caused it, but I and the rest of her friends are of the opinion that it contributed (we all have experience with psychedelics, mostly in our younger days) I mean a cup of coffee might push the wrong person over the edge if they’re already in the midst or about to enter a serious mental health crisis? Of course you’d have to assume a psychoactive substance might contribute but maybe not? I’ve…

okay, this is probably going to very weird, but I've actually had two "no-self"/"ego-death" experiences whilst on drugs (I also meditate daily, but have not have an ego-dissolution from meditation, although I've had some trippy stuff happen). I feel like that whole "world feeling it was telling you you didn't need to exist anymore" may have been it trying to point to you towards a no-self experience, which can actual…

Actually, what I didn't mention is, the whole thing turned out really positive for me because I didn't self-harm, but I kind of came to a similar peaceful conclusion, but through studying philosophy.

At some point I kind of just agreed with this new idea and have been running with it since.

Buddhism often tells you to let your pain and suffering be your guide, and it works,at least in my experience.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#126

Post by heavyset_go »

fullofstack wrote: post #118
davmre wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: SSRIs were transformative for my depression. Side effects were minor and manageable (eg, Wellbutrin worked well to prevent any sexual dysfunction). I was on them for several years and had no problem tapering off. My understanding is that this is a pretty typical experience. Rhetoric like this was actively harmful in dissuading me for years from trying what ended up being by far the most effective treatm…

Wellbutrin is not an SSRI, but a NDRI (norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor). Some people respond better to the latter.

It's often used as an adjunct to SSRIs to counteract side effects.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#127

Post by johnnyworker »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #86
simonvc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’m pretty agnostic, but what are you answers to seemingly untraceable questions of life, meaning, and existence? I’m starting to come around to the view that ridicule of religiosity is quite often more vacuous than spirituality.

That God kinda-became human to "sacrifice" himself (with no loss, got up 3 days later to live forever, nothing was sacrificed) in order to forgive the sins of people, but only if they believe it, isn't spiritual, it's silly. You owe someone something, and someone else or that person pays it for you -- but if you don't believe that happened, it never happened. Great stuff.

I don't need to have an answer for life, the universe and everything to reject that kind of answer. It smells way too much of humans. The Bible even has a bit where it says a pot should not criticize his potter for making it crooked -- while the potter blaming and condemning the pot he made is perfectly fine and sane. If you have a problem and try to fix it with such things, you now have two problems. "Jesus can save you, if you let him" -- nope, he can just do it if he exists and gives a fuck about anything other than playing abusive games.

The Quran is no better, with God bragging how he could have made everyone rightly guided but didn't because he promised to fill hell with people and djinn and always keeps his promises.

It all boils down to "might is right". That stuff isn't insane, by definition, at least to those who actually lap it up, because God threatens the people who reject it.

If a God exists, and made clouds and sparrows and sunshine and love, I would basically be spitting in his face for even considering any that sordid stuff. You might say I know my shepherd's voice, and differentiate it from humans in a trench coat pretending to be a giant, which sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me. I can dig Meister Eckhart, anything below that is just brown shirt antics in my sight, and my reaction to it was and is "come at me, bro". Don't tell me my knee will bend, bend it. Shit or get off the pot.

And people who are fine with being saved from eternal torture through essentially random chance ("being pulled"), while others who are every bit as bad as them get tortured forever, who are crying tears of gratitude while looking the other way, are not the ones I would want to spend eternity with.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#128

Post by kawhah »

acchow wrote: post #28
swalling wrote: post #3

What's missing from this article is that people are reaching for this because the standard medical treatment for these disorders, SSRIs, are pretty terrible. In the mild case, the common side effects are blunting of your emotions and sexual dysfunction. So you don't have panic attacks, but you live in a gray fog and your relationships suffer. In the worst case, they cause suicidal ideation. Psychedelics also have psy…

> SSRIs, are pretty terrible They're terrible for some people, but they work well for others. I don't think they should automatically be disregarded. > In the worst case, they cause suicidal ideation Is this actually true? My understanding is that people in severe depression can have suicidal ideation but not actually be able to put in the effort/energy needed to go through with it. SSRIs initially give you a little…

> Is this actually true?

GlaxoSmithKline paid the Department of Justice $3 billion for covering up evidence of this while promoting their SSRI to under-18s. They paid the fine in 2012, 11 years ago. The medical trial was done in 1994-1998.

In 2003, the (UK medicines regulator) MHRA obtained full clinical data from Glaxo, and based on that data forming robust evidence of significant increase in suicidality, both the MHRA and the FDA immediately said that paroxetine couldn't be prescribed to under-18s.

The UK govt rules on how to report medical trials were changed in relation to what happened with the publication of the Glaxo Paxil trials.

GSK paid around $1 billion in the 2000-2010s to settle several hundred lawsuits, including many many suicides and several family annihilations.

The main investigative news TV show in the UK, Panorama, reported on this in 4 shows between 2002 and 2007.

The Boston Globe did significant investigative work on this around 2005, including a book published by their reporter.

In view of that, your question comes across as at best, uninformed and naive.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#129

Post by heavyset_go »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #36
suzzer99 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm not arguing shrooms should be illegal. I don't think they're any worse than pot, and actually are the one drug I think everyone should do. But I think there are some serious risks to heavy, prolonged use that probably aren't well-studied or understood. Also for all I know her problems stem from the acid and not the shrooms.

They are certainly an order of magnitude more powerful than pot. You can fairly easily have a psychologically very difficult experience at larger doses. I’m all for people trying them but the effects shouldn’t be underestimated. I’ve had powerful feelings of anxiety, love, euphoria, mania or sadness on different times. Very different from pot which has a pretty uniform and predictable effect on me.

High doses of THC and/or its different natural analogues can induce psychedelic experiences.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon

#130

Post by [deleted] »

swalling wrote: post #3

What's missing from this article is that people are reaching for this because the standard medical treatment for these disorders, SSRIs, are pretty terrible. In the mild case, the common side effects are blunting of your emotions and sexual dysfunction. So you don't have panic attacks, but you live in a gray fog and your relationships suffer. In the worst case, they cause suicidal ideation. Psychedelics also have psy…

[deleted]
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