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Raspberry Pi 5: available now

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Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#121

Post by rjsw »

eropple wrote: post #47
bhouston wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orange PI 5 Plus is faster (10% faster single threaded, 200% faster multicore per Geekbench) and also supports up to 32GB of memory. It has decent support, but not anything like the Raspberry Pi ecosystem. So if you want a SBC that is fast for special well defined projects, go with Orange PI 5 Plus, but if you want one for arbitrary hobby projects with tons of support everywhere, go with the Raspberry Pi series.

I have both two OPi5's and an OPi5 Plus, and honestly? It's not a problem. Armbian support's there and is emphatically Good Enough for the 90%+ case. They're excellent boards. If you want to talk about bad support, let's talk about something like the NanoPi R5 series. Oof.

What is wrong with NanoPi? I was thinking of getting an R6C to use for RK3588 development.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#122

Post by treve »

peppercat10 wrote: post #50
treve wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this applies, but: The speed of the raspberry pi goes up dramatically when using a fast USB disk instead of micro SD. Most people start with a micro SD, and I had no idea how much faster a Pi could go.

It does apply to me - I never tried it with a USB disk. I'm getting an RPi5 eventually, and I'll try this out. Thanks for sharing!

Awesome! Would love to hear if/how your experience changes

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#123

Post by ianburrell »

beagle3 wrote: post #97
kkielhofner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. X86 System A lot of the small/mini/micro form-factor systems (even ~five year old used corporate machines) are almost always the (significantly) better option at the price point. I bought a used Dell SFF system a couple of weeks ago for $119 that runs circles around the Pi in every way (16GB RAM, NVMe, real I/O, real USB, PCIe, six core i5, etc) while idling at 9 watts, which makes little difference in operating…

When I was living in Israel, I was never able to find reasonably priced older 2nd hand x86s; there is no eBay culture, and somehow when companies have an upgrade cycle and retire a lot of old hardware, it is always to middle men who then ask for ridiculous prices (like 70% of price of new, faster, more efficient, cooler machine). I wonder if that’s unique to Israel, or if the ease of getting reasonable 2nd hand hardw…

Big advantage of Raspberry Pi is that they are available everywhere for similar price. At least now that the shortage has ended. They have resellers all over the world which means can shop in local language.

My guess is that most of used PCs come from the US. A lot of companies have refresh cycles where buy new hardware every five years or so. There are a lot of support employees that get cheap mini PCs.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#124

Post by ianburrell »

galangalalgol wrote: post #79
squarefoot wrote: post #74

Too little, too late, too expensive. With the RP2040 they showed the world that they can still make very interesting products that fill the low footprint and low cost niche, but the battle for cheap and powerful Linux boards in my opinion is lost; the competition already won in that field and today is years ahead.

Mosern microcontrollers are extremely capable, I agree. But they aren't running a recognizable OS yet. It seems like the only thing holding them back is the ram size generally. The processors on these things obliterate my first linux machine. Is there a reason we have the offerings we do? A kiosk could absolutely be run on a rp2040 if it had more memory.

The RP2040 doesn't have an MMU so it can't run full OS. The RP2040 is also really slow, 133MHz. The RP2040 doesn't have a display connector.

If you want to run kiosk, Pi Zero is a much better choice. It already has all that stuff. It is $10 vs $4. It runs normal OS.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#125

Post by blacksmith_tb »

joshstrange wrote: post #41
CyberDildonics wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a pi 4 running pi hole untouched for multiple years.

YMMV, that's why I stressed "in my experience". I'm aware some people find them rock solid, I'm just not one of those people. I have docker containers running on my local app server that I literally never think about and have been humming away without issue for years (aside from server restarts or updates which I rarely need to do and it's often as easy as a `docker pull`). That's what I'm looking for, if it requires…

The care-and-feeding argument is absolutely legit, I have made several things over the years with RPi-s that were great until they weren't. Like an air quality monitor / logger which ran fine for a couple of years, until the sensor conked out, I replaced it with a turnkey one that's worked fine - though I am sure its sensor will also give up eventually, that's just the nature of them). Or a chiming clock that drove a servo to strike a doorbell chime, the little cheap hobby servos burned out after a couple years, bigger ones introduced more complicated power setups, and bashed the chime harder than was needed. But I also have a couple of Zero W-s which have been running fine for quite a while, the key for them, aside from simpler hardware, was the 'overlay file system' which loads into RAM only, so the sd cards don't get trashed writing logfiles etc.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#126

Post by tuatoru »

dragontamer wrote: post #103
zamadatix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the two high RAM models but I expect the low RAM model to retain the same $35 price. That's no microntroller cost but if you can get away with such they also have the Pico these days which is $4.

Pico has its own problems: 1. VQFN package is a pain to deal with. You can't use a soldering iron, so its reflow-only and therefore requires hotplate + reflow hot air to deal with. Due to the difficulty of rework, you likely can't use the soldering iron+solder wick technique to fix solder bridges, for example... and therefore also require a soldering stencil to work with (gotta deposit the correct amount of solder-pa…

Yeah, that sleep current is inexcusable for an MCU. So is the lack of onboard flash. Weird design all around.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#127

Post by wutwutwat »

musha68k wrote: post #115
benterix wrote: post #63

I'm sorry but it got too expensive and hence lost its main advantage. These days I use second-hand desktop mini-pcs that cost minimally more than the full Rpi set (charger, CD card, case, SBC) but are much more powerful. For anything involving WiFi/IoT, I use ESP32 - far less expensive and very easy to use. And for cases where WiFi is not needed, we have tons of interesting solutions and few reasons to use the Pi.

What about power / TDP though? I personally lean heavily towards ARM/MIPS and hopefully soon RISC-V for that above all? Depends on the use case of course…

For tinkerers and experimentation TDP or power consumption is rarely a factor (for me anyway). I just need cheap access to compute that's available, right now. The device never runs long enough for power consumption to factor into total cost of ownership for me. Waiting forever for low consumption, and often more expensive devices, is for me personally, more expensive than whatever additional power a device I can use right now, when I need it, will draw. The cost of me losing inspiration/motivation due to waiting for a device, or not being able to afford a device, is an order of magnitude more costly than the few cents I'll spend from inefficient power draw. Focusing on TDP is a premature optimization imo, the same as when we hyper focus on loop efficiency in an app with zero users or scaling issues, you don't need to worry about it while in the validation phase, and probably not for a long time after that as well. And let's be honest here, unless you're optimizing every piece of software on the device (whether you wrote it or not), there is all kinds of needless power draw happening even on the lower TDP devices due to inefficiencies in the code.

For long term deployments, I think recycling what would become e-waste by reusing older enterprise units is better overall for the environment than letting it go to a dump and buying a lower power consumption unit.

TL;DR: TDP is not a factor for me, quick and lowish cost access to devices right away is way more important at the start

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#128

Post by idkyall »

galangalalgol wrote: post #79
squarefoot wrote: post #74

Too little, too late, too expensive. With the RP2040 they showed the world that they can still make very interesting products that fill the low footprint and low cost niche, but the battle for cheap and powerful Linux boards in my opinion is lost; the competition already won in that field and today is years ahead.

Mosern microcontrollers are extremely capable, I agree. But they aren't running a recognizable OS yet. It seems like the only thing holding them back is the ram size generally. The processors on these things obliterate my first linux machine. Is there a reason we have the offerings we do? A kiosk could absolutely be run on a rp2040 if it had more memory.

Probably from the RPI perspective it's just due to product segmentation. The Pi Zero 2 W is ~$15, has 512mb ram, and runs full linux with wireless compatibility, video output, etc. Easier to up-sell you on that rather than try to bridge the gap with a $10 product between the two.

I think the Pico/RP2040 works great for most basic electronics projects, and honestly you can get surprisingly far with its processor, up to even basic 3d graphics.[1]

[1] https://sites.google.com/site/tedrossin/home/electronics/ras...

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#129

Post by Rebelgecko »

starik36 wrote: post #119
joshstrange wrote: post #29

And they are promptly out of stock, I assume. I've owned every Raspberry Pi since the first one but I think the 4 was my last one. They are fun to tinker with with but not great for long-term use in my experience. I felt like I had to babysit it way too often, it absolutely wasn't a "setup an forgot" device, again in my experience. It'd be rock solid for 2-3 months then randomly stop working, rinse and repeat. A litt…

> wasn't a "setup an forgot" device It absolutely is. I have 4 RPi devices in the house actively doing work and I only touch them when I need to change a feature or something like that. 1. Front end to my 3D printer - RPi 2. 2. Magic Mirror - RPi 4. 3. Front end to my ancient HP LaserJet to make it wireless - RPi Zero W 4. Detector for Dryer finishing and sending me a text message - RPi Zero 2 W These require no baby…

All of my Pis have shat the bed after 3-5 years and had to be reimaged. I assume it's a combination of power outages + SD card lifetimes

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#130

Post by random_dork1 »

devwastaken wrote: post #94

Reminder that rpi refuses to specially sell to educators, the supposed target and whole purpose of their mission. Those that need them can't get it because the purchasing processes in orgs means they're out of stock before it can be bought.

That is weird! Can you share a source?
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