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Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

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Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

perceptronas wrote: post #70
malermeister wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly is unelected?

European Commission fits here. Head of commission is approved by parliament as far I know, but commissars are not elected, just suggested by each state governments. Also, all EU laws can only be proposed by European Commission. Others can suggest them, but only they can bring them to parliament. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

> European Commission fits here. Head of commission is approved by parliament as far I know, but commissars are not elected, just suggested by each state governments.

The commissioners are appointed by the EC president in consultation with the member governments, and then the commission as a whole needs to secure approval of parliament. This is similar to the process by which parliamentary governments usually form a cabinet, but with the European Council (representatives of all member-state governments) serving in the role of head of state.

One typically talks about the government in a parliamentary system as being elected, so...

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#122

Post by frumper »

acdha wrote: post #119
frumper wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are we banning bots or what the bots are saying? One guy can say the same thing and that is what appears to be targeted.

Probably both and neither - for example, rather than outright banning things requiring them to be linked to a verified owner would potentially allow some speech without the negatives. A historic comparison might be the way Americans making political donations are required to affirm that they are using their own money without reimbursement to add a legal risk to paying people to flood public debate. I don’t claim to h…

Media has always been filled with lies and propaganda. That isn't new. The folk traveling from out of town brought slanted news and biased stories to the watering hole. Songs manipulate your feelings on various topics. Broadsheets brought you the vile things the bad guys are doing, whether accurate or not. The newspapers, radio, and tv media have been filled with propaganda since their inceptions. I'm not sure that anything has changed except there is now another medium people need to learn to filter through. It's coming at us from more directions at once, but we have to open the door for those voices to come in.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#123

Post by frumper »

malermeister wrote: post #118
frumper wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call the Secretary of the Treasury, or any cabinet head, an elected position in the US.

Would you call them part of a democratic government?

Sure. I'd also call the entire civil service part of the democratic government.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#124

Post by rangerelf »

StopTheWorld wrote: post #100
RestlessMind wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A society needs to put limits on behavior of its individuals to be sane Just look at how Indian politicians abuse hate speech laws. A classic example: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/16/media/india-bbc-office-raid-t... "Officials had spent three days raiding the spaces following the country’s ban on a BBC documentary that was critical of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s alleged role in deadly riots more than 20 years ago…

Booker Prize winner Arundhati Roy gave a speech 13 years ago saying Kashmir was never an integral part of India, and New Delhi just announced she is going to be prosecuted for her speech https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/south-asia/booker-winner-a...

Please don't conflate issues.

Retroactively applying laws to target your political enemies has nothing to do with censorship laws (except using them as an excuse) and everything to do with corruption and authoritarianism.

Donald Trump promised to prosecute everyone he holds a grudge against if he was elected president again, and the USA has constitutionally enshrined free speech laws.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#125

Post by avgcorrection »

anonyfox wrote: post #75
jl6 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fascist propaganda Huge opportunity here to censor your disfavored groups by calling them fascist, which has, in recent times, evolved from being a political science term, to being a very broad type of insult/accusation usable against almost anyone you don’t like.

As a German, I have a really good idea what actual fascism looks like, thank you. We have also laws that specify what types of content are illegal, and for very good (historical) reasons.

How old are you? Are you talking about Neo-Nazis?

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#126

Post by Animats »

CNN: "Schools in Israel, the UK and the US are advising parents to delete their children’s social media apps over concerns that Hamas militants will broadcast or disseminate disturbing videos of hostages who have been seized in recent days."[1]

Unclear if this is a trend, or merely an action taken by staff at two unnamed schools.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/tech/tiktok-social-media-isra...

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#128

Post by petsfed »

frumper wrote: post #122
acdha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably both and neither - for example, rather than outright banning things requiring them to be linked to a verified owner would potentially allow some speech without the negatives. A historic comparison might be the way Americans making political donations are required to affirm that they are using their own money without reimbursement to add a legal risk to paying people to flood public debate. I don’t claim to h…

Media has always been filled with lies and propaganda. That isn't new. The folk traveling from out of town brought slanted news and biased stories to the watering hole. Songs manipulate your feelings on various topics. Broadsheets brought you the vile things the bad guys are doing, whether accurate or not. The newspapers, radio, and tv media have been filled with propaganda since their inceptions. I'm not sure that a…

So, since it was always in principle possible that the streets of every city, town, and village could be flooded by millions of newsies, all hocking editions of a variety of newspapers that had all just began publishing that day, we should do nothing now that it is actually possible in practice?

I'm not saying I know what the solution actually is, but denying that there even is a problem, or that the existing guidelines were designed with the above scenario in mind, is just preposterous to me.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#129

Post by frumper »

petsfed wrote: post #128
frumper wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media has always been filled with lies and propaganda. That isn't new. The folk traveling from out of town brought slanted news and biased stories to the watering hole. Songs manipulate your feelings on various topics. Broadsheets brought you the vile things the bad guys are doing, whether accurate or not. The newspapers, radio, and tv media have been filled with propaganda since their inceptions. I'm not sure that a…

So, since it was always in principle possible that the streets of every city, town, and village could be flooded by millions of newsies, all hocking editions of a variety of newspapers that had all just began publishing that day, we should do nothing now that it is actually possible in practice? I'm not saying I know what the solution actually is, but denying that there even is a problem, or that the existing guideli…

I don't deny there is a problem. I am saying the problem is as old as time.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#130

Post by acdha »

frumper wrote: post #122
acdha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably both and neither - for example, rather than outright banning things requiring them to be linked to a verified owner would potentially allow some speech without the negatives. A historic comparison might be the way Americans making political donations are required to affirm that they are using their own money without reimbursement to add a legal risk to paying people to flood public debate. I don’t claim to h…

Media has always been filled with lies and propaganda. That isn't new. The folk traveling from out of town brought slanted news and biased stories to the watering hole. Songs manipulate your feelings on various topics. Broadsheets brought you the vile things the bad guys are doing, whether accurate or not. The newspapers, radio, and tv media have been filled with propaganda since their inceptions. I'm not sure that a…

Again, think of scale and cost. Newspapers needed to be written, printed, and required a distribution network – all of which require money, time, and infrastructure. That doesn’t mean that they were perfect but they developed reputations and because they needed to pay those bills there was some moderating influence for not scaring off readers or advertisers — that’s not perfect but it’s why you had stories which only ran in tabloids because the owners of the bigger papers didn’t want to lose business or get sued (physical presence means assets at risk!) by someone they slandered. Governments often had rules about foreign ownership of media outlets, registration or permitting requirements for journalists, etc.

Again, I’m not saying that everything was perfect before but that the rules and norms from the past need to be adjusted for the present. The way we handled hundreds of television stations can’t scale to millions of websites or social media accounts, especially since you no longer have anchors like geographic proximity or business identities.

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