I was really interested until they compared it to Russian disinformation that led to the election of Donald Trump. Everyone knows that's a load of crap. Why discredit yourself? If you're trying to get the word out that China is attempting to sway a Taiwanese election, the last thing you need to be doing is comparing your point to known nonsense.
China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
121–130 of 197 posts
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would only have been since 1949, and they gave up their best chance to retake Taiwan (while the Americans weren’t interested) to meddle in Korea instead. The Americans don’t really care that much about TSMC. Its fabs are highly dependent on parts, material, etc from more secured countries, which is by design, or they would have never allowed semiconductor industries to be setup in Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. They ha…
> ... they gave up their best chance to retake Taiwan (while the Americans weren’t interested) to meddle in Korea instead. My understanding of the timeline/causation in 1950 is the other way around. Initially China was only going to offer largely moral support to North Korea. On June 27 the U.S. Seventh Fleet was sent to the Taiwan Strait to prevent PRC from taking Taiwan. This was a factor in China's decision to ent…
Kim asked permission from Mao (who then asked Stalin m) to invade, with the support from China and Russia that would entail. America became very interested in east Asia after the initial invasion, not just when MacArther went too far into North Korea. It was basically over for their plans to retake Taiwan once Kim crossed troops into South Korea, Mao had to have known that.
The USA completely expected Taiwan to fall to the communists before the Korean War, and they were pretty untrusting of Chiang Kai Shek at the time, they didn’t really care. But after the Korean War started, that sentiment transformed overnight into “Taiwan must not fall to the communists at any cost.”
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
[dead]
Imagine having such a superiority complex thinking that China's survival hinges entirely on western investment and graces. That's some jingoism right there.
Yeah, I'm sorry to break a nationalist's heart. China needs foreign investment to survive, otherwise its 22% youth unemployment rate, 3 of its biggest real estate companies being bankrupt, local government's $12 trillion debt, 600M citizens on $140/month income will just get worse.
But those investments are now gone forever.
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd suggest taking a look at the specific clauses under discussion, esp. as the draft laws are still in the public commentary stage. See clauses 2 and 3 of Article 34 in ( https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/public-security-adminis... ) and consider them in the context of clauses 1, 4, 5, and 6. Note the recurrent mentions of 'heroes and martyrs' and 'wars of aggression' within these clauses, something a casual read…
"Causing harm to the names, images, reputations, and honor of heroes and martyrs through insult, defamation, or other such means" pretty clearly means to me something along the lines of "you can't point out that Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward caused a famine that killed tens of millions of people." There's nothing along those lines in any EU country, let alone the US (where such a concept is in extremely flagrant vi…
"heroes and martyrs" is the English translation of 英雄烈士, which is not a generic term of praise in Chinese but specifically applies to someone who died in battle (or some similar act of bravery) — think acts worthy of Victoria Cross in UK or Purple Heart in US. Even people who worship Mao do not think of him as one of the "heroes and martyrs".
In China you certainly can point out, even criticize, Mao's role in the Great Leap Forward. Even "Official History" criticizes Mao! You can't be too "over the top" about it, such as comparing him to Hitler or accuse him of being a mass murderer, lest you get cancelled. But the reason you can't has nothing to do with the draft laws being proposed here.
> The closest you'd come is laws against Holocaust denial--but notice the key difference between a law that makes it a crime to suggest that a "good" person might have done something bad versus a law that makes it a crime to suggest that a bad deed never happened.
If you make the first kind of claim and you are wrong, you falsely accuse an innocent person. If you make the second kind of claim and you are wrong, you unjustly exonerate a guilty person. Which is worse? I don't think there's a clear answer! So I fail to see the "key difference" you are trying to highlight between these kinds of claims. Of course, if one of them is true and the other false, then there's a clearly worse claim, but then the worse claim is worse because it's false, not because of the objectionable/offensive nature of its content.
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#125He suggests many Taiwanese have an “orphan mentality”: they fear abandonment by outsiders because of Taiwan’s experience of losing American diplomatic recognition in the 1970s.
This was insightful for me, actually. I never thought of this before. It explains a lot!
All journalists in Taiwan serve the bias of their newspapers’ bosses, says Mr Wang, who has worked for both pro-independence and pro-unification newspapers. “Everyone just treats it as a job,” he says. “It’s a tool to feed yourself.”
Also this is very cynical and painful to read. Ugh...vomit face. But also makes sense based on what I've seen there!
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd suggest taking a look at the specific clauses under discussion, esp. as the draft laws are still in the public commentary stage. See clauses 2 and 3 of Article 34 in ( https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/public-security-adminis... ) and consider them in the context of clauses 1, 4, 5, and 6. Note the recurrent mentions of 'heroes and martyrs' and 'wars of aggression' within these clauses, something a casual read…
"Causing harm to the names, images, reputations, and honor of heroes and martyrs through insult, defamation, or other such means" pretty clearly means to me something along the lines of "you can't point out that Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward caused a famine that killed tens of millions of people." There's nothing along those lines in any EU country, let alone the US (where such a concept is in extremely flagrant vi…
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Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
The quote is an example of Chinese disinformation being spread in Taiwan, not a reflection of anything in reality.
Yes, I know that. Where did I say differently? I said the threats are being normalized. If a world power is telling their citizens that it's happening, whether its actually happening or not, then that is the process of normalization.
> is this the kind of world we live in now? Where the proliferation of bioweapon threats is commonplace?
no one is normalizing bioweapon threats, they're normalizing accusing the other side of bioweapon threats
but I guess that's pedantic and I agree with you that it sucks that no one would be surprised if a bioweapon did occur because everyone suspects the other side of it anyway
*using no one and everyone loosely
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The safe and secure claim was largely around the conduct of the election itself, whereas US adversaries largely deployed disinfo and propaganda tactics to interfere in the election. So, not sure they sat it out as much as the U.S. was a little better prepared. For instance, social media platforms did a better job of not being completely owned as fire hoses for propaganda and disinfo. Of course, some then complained t…
> For instance, social media platforms did a better job of not being completely owned as fire hoses for propaganda and disinfo. Better job by not cashing the adversaries checks? https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/... > Of course, some then complained that this constituted "censorship" by the platforms. Ah you mean the government going hunting and finding accounts that violated the ever changi…
Yes and yes.
Safe to say that $46K ad spend was a drop in the bucket versus their overall effort, but sure, Facebook not accepting those rubles in 2020 counts as a small example.
I have no problem with the U.S. government working with American communications platforms to prevent adversarial propaganda, disinformation and disruption of US elections. These are foreign governments engaged in psyops against American citizens. Falls pretty squarely (and obviously) within government purview to defend against it.
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine having such a superiority complex thinking that China's survival hinges entirely on western investment and graces. That's some jingoism right there.
Yeah, I'm sorry to break a nationalist's heart. China needs foreign investment to survive, otherwise its 22% youth unemployment rate, 3 of its biggest real estate companies being bankrupt, local government's $12 trillion debt, 600M citizens on $140/month income will just get worse. But those investments are now gone forever.
Nah I'm no nationalist. Just trying to provide balanced views.
> But those investments are now gone forever.
Can bet there will still be investors coming in to fill the void.
Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who cares? Presumable the hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of people in China who are going to die if they invade Taiwan, due to all the weapons that the US gives Taiwan and will continue to give them to defend themselves. And possibly even more that that if and when either the USA or surrounding Pacific Asia countries get directly involved against China. Those US bases aren't there for show. Instead,…
> due to all the weapons that the US gives Taiwan and will continue to give them to defend themselves. Sorry, we gave all those to Ukraine.
Are you not aware of the last 70 years of us arming Taiwan?
Or all the military bases in the Asia Pacific area, controlled by either the US or it's allies?
Those bases aren't for show.
They are for taking out invading forces and enacting an oil blockage if it comes to that.