> It has become a dominant view in the philosophy of time that Einstein’s Theory of Relativity showed that the passage of time is an illusion, and that in fact the past, present, and future all coexist. The first paragraph is already troubling for me, the "fact the past, present, and future all coexist" is a gross misinterpretation of general relativity, a borderline esoteric atrology-type view, and I can't believe t…
I don’t think it’s a gross misinterpretation. General relativity does show that what one observer would consider the future can exists as the present of another observer, and vice versa. As time is part of the 4 dimensional Minkowski space, saying that the future, past and present don’t coexist would be like saying left doesn’t exists when you’re going right.
Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
121–130 of 179 posts
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#122The “angle” of time vs space is different based on perspective. Each perspective sees a different direction of time through the 4D space-time.
Yet from any perspective, the space time regions coordinates are still best represented with three real values and one imaginary value.
This is the form of coordinates in the space time interval equation, and reflects time dilation and space contraction.
So space and time are identical stuff, but from any vantage point you will see “your” time dimension acting differently than 3 spatial dimensions.
It’s a really interesting property.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that a fatal flaw?
Isn’t scientism the idea that we have a set of knowledge that is conclusively known along with a heavy reliance on authority, while science is about inquiry, experimentation and searching for theories? A physicists dismissing philosophy as out of date implies that we are already on the optimum path to discovering the remaining knowledge about the universe to be learned.
Does not follow. It suffices that such a physicist thinks philosophy isn't going to improve on science (like it hasn't so far).
It might turn out alchemy will become useful, but it's unlikely. And bear in mind alchemy provided more results than philosophy so far.
There might be something else, even better than science, that's an independent question. But why people assume philosophy will necessarily be involved in any way?
This is the trick that philosophy and religion uses that frustrates me the most. They claim all the territory we don't know anything about as if their own it and shout "scientism" and "dogmatism" when people protest :)
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But modern thinkers cannot be so readily absolved No, but they can go on a 40 year goose chase trying to reconcile the many different string theories that don't have any physical evidence to substantiate. QFT is one of the most successful theories we've created, but GR is still our best theory regarding gravity. There's still no evidence for the graviton. We probably need something else besides QFT to describe the n…
> QFT is one of the most successful theories we've created, but GR is still our best theory regarding gravity. There's still no evidence for the graviton. We probably need something else besides QFT to describe the nature of reality The evidence for QFT is orders of magnitude stronger than the evidence for GR, and the two are incompatible. The empirical evidence is simply the fact that gravity exists; if there's no g…
According to GR, gravity per se is a kind of illusion caused by the movement of particles in a curved space-time. The more basic effect is spacetime curving itself around mass(/energy).
Now, whether this interaction itself is quantized or not (if the curvature comes in integer multiples) remains unknown. It is very much possible that gravity/space-time curvature is a different kind of effect than the other three fundamental interactions, and that it is not in fact qunatized, so there is no graviton.
And unto string theory, the problem with it is that it doesn't explain anything new. It posits some ideas of how gravity might work in a qunatized form, but any actual tests of the correctness of those calculations requires studying a black hole up close, which won't happen very soon. And of course, it infamously does so at the cost of adding lots of new elements to physics (extra dimensions, extra particles) none of which are testable or observed. And it still doesn't fix other problems of QM/QFT, most notably the measurement problem.
Plus, there is no actual need for String Theory to say that it's the best option we've got for X. For whatever we want to model, we can use either QFT or GR.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are all very good questions, and I can't do them justice in an HN comment. But here's a first cut: > How do you believe the results you are getting? What makes such a belief justified? Read David Deutsch "The Fabric of Reality" chapter 7. > What is the nature of consciousness? Read Daniel Dennett, "Consciousness Explained". > What are things beautiful? What makes something ascetically pleasing. Read Richard Daw…
Daniel Dennett is a philosopher.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
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By my reading, a lot of it just boils down to the "all models are wrong, but some are useful" aphorism, but denigrating models' usefulness in a philosophical context, calling the implications of relativity and whatnot "a waste of time". I think this is overly reductive. Indeed, many consequences that follow from the nonexistence or impossibility of a certain thing, event, or effect are brittle to the physical model b…
That's not a great example, since conservation of energy is actually violated in current cosmological models. The expansion of spacetime actually implies violation of energy conservation at the global level. It's only locally that energy is conserved.
Similarly, while there is definitely something special about the speed of light, it may or may not be a limit in the sense we typically use. That is, GR and QFT are consistent with the existence particles to have speeds greater than C, it only prevents any particle from accelerating from below C to C or above. It also puts certain limits on observations of those particles. However, it's hard to say what overall implications there would be for all of our models if such particles were actually found to exist, or if there is some modification possible for those theories that would entirely prevent the existence of those particles.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#127> We have first order knowledge of things No, we don't. We only have first-order knowledge of our perceptions of things. And quantum mechanics shows us that those perceptions can be radically different from the underlying reality. Of course, Einstein can be forgiven for making this mistake because he didn't know about the Bell inequality and the subsequent experiments, so it is understandable that he would cling to t…
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#128We know time and space are the same fabric, because different relativistic speeds let us see the same regions of space-time with different space-time coordinates. The “angle” of time vs space is different based on perspective. Each perspective sees a different direction of time through the 4D space-time. Yet from any perspective, the space time regions coordinates are still best represented with three real values and…
I haven't got into the depths of Bergson's argument, but I think I see the point in the headline that time belongs in philosophy, and I can easily imagine he was right that Einstein was smuggling in philosophical assumptions in the particular choice of words he used to describe the implications of his findings.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#129We know time and space are the same fabric, because different relativistic speeds let us see the same regions of space-time with different space-time coordinates. The “angle” of time vs space is different based on perspective. Each perspective sees a different direction of time through the 4D space-time. Yet from any perspective, the space time regions coordinates are still best represented with three real values and…
Additionally, events in 4D spacetime can be either space-like separated or time-like separated, and this difference is the same for all (inertial) observers.
This is especially relevant in discussions about the arrow of time since all inertial observers agree on the order in which time-like separated events happen. So even though in the 4D spacetime model there isn't an absolute ordering of events, there exists a partial order that all (inertial) observers agree on.
Re: Time Doesn’t Belong to Physics – When Bergson met Einstein
#130> It has become a dominant view in the philosophy of time that Einstein’s Theory of Relativity showed that the passage of time is an illusion, and that in fact the past, present, and future all coexist. The first paragraph is already troubling for me, the "fact the past, present, and future all coexist" is a gross misinterpretation of general relativity, a borderline esoteric atrology-type view, and I can't believe t…
I don’t think it’s a gross misinterpretation. General relativity does show that what one observer would consider the future can exists as the present of another observer, and vice versa. As time is part of the 4 dimensional Minkowski space, saying that the future, past and present don’t coexist would be like saying left doesn’t exists when you’re going right.
Not in any way that is inconsistent with an evolving universe, actually. Sure, an observer may exist at some coordinates in 4D spacetime where they are detecting light from Sagittarius A that in our frame is 1000 years old, but also light from the Sun that in our frame is 1000 years from now. But that observer cannot be meaningfully said to be either in our present nor in our past. And if we ever "meet" to discuss our observarions, it is guaranteed that it will be no less than 1000 years from now, after we also see the sun evolving. We'll essentially only disagree about how old the light from Sagittarius A was.
Most importantly, SR is not consistent with any ordering of events that breaks causality. If I drop a mug and it shatters, no observer can see the mug shatter and then see me dropping it. So, there is no reason to believe that the shattered mug already existed somewhere in space time when I dropped it, though there is also no reason to believe that it didn't.