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It's okay to make something nobody wants

zhangluyao.com

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Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#121

Post by firewolf34 »

xwdv wrote: post #98

What’s with the sappy, weepy tone here? If someone made a household cleaning detergent or some vitamin powder that nobody wanted, would we still be saying these products aren’t really for users, but rather are just another medium of self expression? Is it okay for them to still exist? Sure, it’s also okay to be a loser . Seen through a capitalist lens, the point of a product is to serve a useful purpose. If nobody wa…

Cattle and pets both exist. You want cattle? Make cattle. You want pets? Make pets. Why the absolution?

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#122

Post by danielvaughn »

makk wrote: post #104
danielvaughn wrote: post #102

Bookmarking this to return to whenever I feel down on myself. I’ve been working on a side project for way too long, and I’m scared to publicize it because I don’t know whether it’s a terrible idea that everyone will hate. But all I know is that I don’t hate it; I find it super interesting. https://matry.design

That looks pretty sweet! I can immediately see how there could be a companion framework that turns those descriptions into clickable prototypes, and how translation between designer and product people becomes really smooth. I love it!

Thanks! Yeah that would be pretty cool, I've been toying with the idea of adding behavior, but for various reasons I'm really trying to keep the language static. You could definitely build a framework on top of the language to support click events.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#123

Post by IggleSniggle »

bsnnkv wrote: post #31

This article resonated with me a lot and had me reflecting on my journey writing komorebi. I started writing komorebi because I had recently migrated to Windows and was really struggling without a tiling window manager. I didn't know anything about Win32 APIs when I started, or much about Rust either, actually. Fast forward to today, and komorebi is sitting at 35k downloads, supported by a huge Discord server, a vibr…

I really like your interpretation of psychology on resultant codebases. Personally, I have very mild bipolar-like tendencies, and I find that I don't really get much done except in my "manic" phases. If I'm feeling more charitable to myself I call it an explore/exploit loop. I consider it one of life's many seasons, and don't mind the oscillations too much.

However, while I've read serene code, my own code often reads as "manic" in my own estimation.

I haven't found the state of mind where I would even attempt serene code: when I'm at peace, writing code seems like a waste of time when there's trees and bubbling waters outside, and good friends and family to share gentle laughs with. I genuinely enjoy coding, but I would like it if I could find that serene mental space that also afforded productivity.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#124

Post by IggleSniggle »

sentimentscan wrote: post #70
tempestn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about your work and work environment can make time spent working a lot more fulfilling. Which isn't to say every company or every manager inspires such sentiment, but if you can find a way to care about your work, and/or find work that you care about, it's definitely more pleasant than just doing the minimum to collect pay.

Nothing is worse then when you care, and apparently all the code written/test/work done 3 months by team goes straight to the trash, no explanation. Simply some exec in this large thought that it should go to trash, couldn't even give me a reason. I quickly quit after that.

Believe me, it's far worse when everybody working on it thinks it should go in the trash, but everybody is still working on it because some exec in this large org thinks it still has promise year after year.

I've been on both sides of that, and while I appreciate execs that know how to give a project room to breath and find their footing, I also appreciate execs that know when to tear the bandaid off.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#125

Post by xwdv »

firewolf34 wrote: post #121
xwdv wrote: post #98

What’s with the sappy, weepy tone here? If someone made a household cleaning detergent or some vitamin powder that nobody wanted, would we still be saying these products aren’t really for users, but rather are just another medium of self expression? Is it okay for them to still exist? Sure, it’s also okay to be a loser . Seen through a capitalist lens, the point of a product is to serve a useful purpose. If nobody wa…

Cattle and pets both exist. You want cattle? Make cattle. You want pets? Make pets. Why the absolution?

Cattle don’t make good pets.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#126

Post by keiferski »

davnicwil wrote: post #113
hermannj314 wrote: post #81

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

A negative reception to putting a product out there is actually a really great outcome. It shows you are doing something right if this happens. The expected and typical outcome is to be completely ignored - crickets. This is perhaps the main reason you should not fear shipping! I have a post which elaborates on this if it's interesting for anyone: https://davnicwil.com/negative-feedback-is-positive/

Unfortunately those two things often come together, in which the only bit of attention is a single negative comment. Social media sites (forums included) are optimized to reward criticism, no matter how small, instead of positivity.

Supposedly this is because upvotes are intended to replace comments like "Great!" or "I really like this, good job." But obviously that doesn't work out in reality.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#127

Post by ryukoposting »

hermannj314 wrote: post #81

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

We need more spaces where young, passionate folks can get some encouragement and support. It can be really hard to find that, especially when you're inexperienced.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#128

Post by sanderjd »

I'm constantly ambivalent about this...

Bear with me because it's not a perfect analogy, but it reminds me of this line from a Fleet Foxes song that landed exactly at the right (or wrong) moment in my life:

> I was raised up believing I was somehow unique ... now after some thinking, I'd say I'd rather be a functioning cog in some great machinery serving something beyond me

I guess where I've landed is that I try to do both. I look for things to work on that are personally interesting to me, where I can also be "a functioning cog" working toward a larger positive goal far beyond myself.

It's hard to strike that balance though! And I often wonder if I would be better off committing more fully to one or the other side of it instead.

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#129

Post by [deleted] »

zpeti wrote: post #119
hermannj314 wrote: post #81

I wasted a lot of my life being too scared to make something out of fear. This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out, that aren't geniuses, that didnt make every perfect decision for their product. Life is more enjoyable in a create-fail-learn loop than a consume-criticize-gloat loop. I wish I'd learned that sooner.

> This community especially can be very toxic to people that are starting out This isn’t toxicity. This is normal human behaviour. Either you deal with it yourself internally or you will be suffering it forever. Maybe this is why childhood trauma helps sometimes at being an entrepreneur (I have first hand experience), being bullied made sure I didn’t really care about negative feedback later on in life. My point is c…

[deleted]

Re: It's okay to make something nobody wants

#130

Post by jpcapdevila »

This really resonates with me, I like the idea if product as container for emotions.

But I think the author misses one point here:

> I believe the real skill in making products isn’t some “making products” skill, but rather a skill in feeling your own subtle emotions.

I believe there are high emotional, highly empathetic people that can talk to other people, understand their emotions and create something for them.

This for me would be "making products skill". This is how you create products for things that you can't experience yourself directly.

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