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Two-parent households should be a policy goal

theatlantic.com

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Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#121

Post by mortureb »

the_other wrote: post #70
a-user-you-like wrote: post #19

Nothing better than a father and mother in a stable, loving relationship for a child. Yes, let’s encourage this.

It’s not a universal good. It’s often good (I grew up this way, as did most of my friends and we’re mostly fine), but the nuclear family is also sometimes a breeding ground for the worst abuses. Insisting on it, giving it special privilege gives privilege to those abuses. Kids absolutely benefit from stable, nurturing surroundings. But that could take so many other forms: multi-generational families, co-parenting, “i…

Whatever, I’m sick of some outliers discounting something that works as a whole. I don’t take your conjecture to be true. Even hunter gatherers societies that exist today, including uncontacted tribes have two modes of family. Nuclear/extended or polygamous. Those forms are inherent and what humans naturally coalesce around.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#122

Post by digging »

morkalork wrote: post #110
digging wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A multi generational household occurs naturally when grandma and grandpa had a stable two parent households and now mom and dad do too. More importantly, young people need a reason not to move hundreds or thousands of miles away from their stable household. Investing in community resources, local economies, and infrastructure that promotes health and opportunity are all necessary.

WFH solves this too. RTO policies are anti-family. Hell, unchecked corporate work culture is part of why Japan and Korea's birth rates are so low. Can't be out having babies if you're at the office at all hours.

Fully agreed! But it's not enough.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#123

Post by [deleted] »

vorpalhex wrote: post #102
digging wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels extremely unusual to me to specifically call out a mother/father relationship if they weren't intending to exclude queer relationships. A note for all readers: don't say "nothing better than a [straight relationship]" if that's not what you mean.

Most relationships, especially with kids, are heterosexual.

[deleted]

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#124

Post by [deleted] »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #107
helen___keller wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It took most of human history to build the old culture with immense social pressure to marry and have children, immense social pressure for men to provide and women to care for children, and intense taboos around divorce, births out of wedlock, even around non-marriage into old age That world is gone, and probably for the better in many ways. The world needs to find different cultural norms around children su…

> The world needs to find different cultural norms around children such that we can have a stable population and happy children. Unfortunately, the world is dead. It can play around with cultural norms as if they are toys for whatever time it has left, but the diagnosis is terminal. You don't have enough children, all of you, the fertility rate is below replacement and it is not a blip or a fluke. Children who grow u…

[deleted]

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#125

Post by mortureb »

lokar wrote: post #106
bluefirebrand wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like raising a kid requires exposing them to many different experiences growing up, and generally speaking fathers will provide different experiences mothers. Do I have evidence? No. Do you have any evidence that any other form of parenting is just as good?

I’m not the one saying that the government should intervene in how people form families.

I’m saying we tried that and don’t have much to show for it.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#126

Post by dagw »

anon291 wrote: post #69
lokar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is that better the two mothers? Do you have evidence?

There is ample evidence that boys and girls with fathers do better.

Ample evidence that boys and girls do better with a father and a mother, compared to just a mother. Are there studies that show that two mothers are worse than a mother and a father (or just a father for that matter, if we believe that the male role model is significant factor).

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#127

Post by dragonwriter »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #12

There was an excellent NYT article about this as well: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/single-parent-pov... > We are often reluctant to acknowledge one of the significant drivers of child poverty — the widespread breakdown of family — for fear that to do so would be patronizing or racist.

Kristof (this is an opinion piece, not an nees article or even an editorial by the paper, so it represents the author’s thinking, not the NYT’s nececssarily) is wrong.

The reason people are reluctant to really explore the nature and role of the “breakdown of the family” (especially people like Kristof who throw it out as a facile explanation, who are not at all, contrary to his description, uncommon, this line being standard on both the Republican Right and the Democratic center-right) is that that breakdown is itself a result of policies that are patronizing and racist, both in which family models they favor and in which communities they undermine family structures of all kinds.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#128

Post by troyvit »

matthewfelgate wrote: post #78
giantg2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Forcing unhappy people to stay together or get married doesn't help anyone." I largely agree, but the idea of promoting two parent households isn't antithetical to your statement. You could have programs that are meant to ensure that couples get married for the right reasons, with the right skills, etc. It's likely a marriage prep/ed course would result in fewer divorces, just as drivers ed results in better drivers…

You want people to go to marriage school?! Honestly what planet are you living on.

It's the science fiction world called, "The Planet of People Who Look Before They Leap."

There are awesome marriage schools, called couples counseling, and a lot of people do just that before getting married to help expose some of the gotchas that you don't realize before getting married (lots more farts basically). Should it be "policy?" Hell no, but it would probably help new families a lot for people to do it.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#129

Post by mortureb »

digging wrote: post #83
nathanaldensr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Don't use scientific words to make unscientific claims about the "natural" state of human families.

Even uncontacted tribes coalesce around two forms of family. Extended or polygamous. There is a natural state.

Re: Two-parent households should be a policy goal

#130

Post by aidenn0 »

anon291 wrote: post #66
_greim_ wrote: post #46

The problem with two-parent is you're a single misstep away from one-parent. Multi-generational and communal households would be more resilient, and easier to accommodate via tax incentives and housing policy.

A multi generational household occurs naturally when grandma and grandpa had a stable two parent households and now mom and dad do too. Moreover, it's not necessary to force everyone in the same house. My parents and inlaws are within 20 minutes. It's great and since they are both married and happy, there's little family stress and the kids get ample time with both grandparents. God forbid, if anything were to happen…

> A multi generational household occurs naturally when grandma and grandpa had a stable two parent households and now mom and dad do too.

Huh? My sister and I both live more than a thousand miles away from our stable, married parents that we are on good terms with. We went where our work took us and then met and married people in that area. My sister lives several hundred miles away from her in-laws, and my in-laws (also still married) only moved to be near us when they were no longer capable of living independently (there is no way with all of their health issues that they could take care of our kids).

This goes back a generation as well, though the distances were smaller (~400 miles of driving between me and my grandparents when I was growing up).

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