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Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

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Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#121

Post by orblivion »

fb03 wrote: post #46

Cannabis should be legalized and regulated. Period. People that want to partake ofc should have safe access to it. That doesn't means and has never meant it is a harmless thing, like some groups portray it to be. "it's just a naturally ocurring plant!" Education, more information and less zealotry help on both sides of the discusstion. It's not the devil's lettuce they had people think with 60s propaganda, but it's n…

It always seemed like it would be a sea change if the government actually decoupled "this is an okay idea" from "we won't forcefully stop you from doing this". It thus made it feel impossible that they'd legalize drugs, but it's great to see it start to happen. But there may be other long standing examples I'm not thinking of. Smoking and alcohol seem to be on the edge.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#123

Post by xpe »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #79
l33t7332273 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is correlation vs causation determined in other studies where a control group cannot be used?

It's important to recognize that we've never successfully answered Hume's general skepticism about the existence of causality as something that is real outside of our own minds. So causality can't be positively confirmed to exist at all , let alone be detected and confirmed through statistics. Before you dismiss that is philosophical non-sense, causality is closely related to the "Arrow of Time" which is considered a…

The comment above refers to Hume's 'induction problem' [1].

> we've never successfully answered Hume's general skepticism about the existence of causality as something that is real outside of our own minds

The quote seems to imply a strong consensus, but [1] disagrees.

The phrasing "the existence of causality as something that is real outside of our own minds" sounds like philosophical idealism [2]. One can take that view without discussing causation at all, seems to me. Forgive the following blunt questions: how is philosophical idealism either (a) useful or (b) testable? To me, currently, it seems to be neither.

Maybe I'm missing something? For those that get value from it, what are some practical take-aways you get out of thinking about Hume's 'problem of induction'?

I'm very much into philosophy, but I admit I don't see a lot of utility in digging into this outside of historical purposes. It feels to me that the tools from inferential statistics combined with some deeper study on causation are far more useful and enlightening than trying to figure out the historical context around Hume's writing here. I'm glad other people do it, for sure, but what I've skimmed doesn't "grab" me.

WRT causation, I often return to the idea of "no model is perfect, but some are useful". There are many times when we build useful models that -- when combined with proper experimentation -- very strongly indicate causation. The laws of physics, for example. As soon as people get involved, it gets messy.

[1]: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/

[2]: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/idealism/

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#124

Post by reissbaker »

shadowtree wrote: post #89

[flagged]

Heroin yes, but I'd be surprised if we ever re-ban cannabis — heroin was a new drug, whereas cannabis was used for millennia [1] by human societies, with criminalization only happening in the 20th century for... pretty suspect motives.

1: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cannabis-found-alt...

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#125

Post by [deleted] »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #97
jliptzin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, your inability to use marijuana responsibly should not make my responsible marijuana usage illegal.

Society does this all the time though realistically. If there is a 1:N chance of harm; and N is low, and we have no idea who will be harmed, we tend to regulate or make illegal. How many societies have legalized marijuana?

[deleted]

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#126

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

senttoschool wrote: post #32

I just quit weed after getting addicted for almost 2 years. There is a large community of people who are trying to quit: /r/leaves The article is nothing new to me. Read a few posts from the subreddit and you'd see a pattern. Three weeks ago, I was pro-weed recreation legalization. Today, I'm strongly anti recreation use. Edit: I'm not against decriminalization of weed. I'm highly against pro-recreational use. I'm ag…

> Three weeks ago, I was pro-weed recreation legalization. Today, I'm strongly anti recreation use.

The other posters here have a point. If one is vocal against cannabis while mostly giving alcohol a pass - it makes it harder to respect warnings of harm.

After 5 generations of lying drug war PR and ridiculous propaganda, this deeply incredulous debate needs a lot to be worth considering.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#128

Post by pfannkuchen »

smt88 wrote: post #115
shadowtree wrote: post #89

[flagged]

> why certain substances were banned in the first place You obviously have no idea why cannabis was banned in the US. It wasn't banned because of harm to individuals or to society. It certainly can do those things, but there was no scientific basis for the original ban. It was banned because of a massive propaganda campaign by Harry Anslinger, who fabricated evidence that cannabis was a drug of immigrants, non-White…

This is like the people who say that auto company lobbying is the cause of poor public transportation in America. Sure, that is a cause, but there are many other causes as well, and the other causes likely dominate the named cause. Framing it as the cause seems implausible and even cartoonish to me.

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#129

Post by bottlepalm »

fb03 wrote: post #46

Cannabis should be legalized and regulated. Period. People that want to partake ofc should have safe access to it. That doesn't means and has never meant it is a harmless thing, like some groups portray it to be. "it's just a naturally ocurring plant!" Education, more information and less zealotry help on both sides of the discusstion. It's not the devil's lettuce they had people think with 60s propaganda, but it's n…

It's difficult to 'educate' people when we don't know a lot about it. For example, for many people weed is good for a few years, but eventually descend into paranoia, unable to smoke even a little bit. What is causing that? A change in the brain? Is that harmful? Are there other side effects?

Re: Cannabis use disorder and subsequent risk of depression and bipolar disorder

#130

Post by vhcr »

bumby wrote: post #114
jamiek88 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you also abstain from alcohol for the same reason then I applaud you. Alcohol has NO safe level of consumption. Unlike cannabis. If you say this while consuming other drugs that are harsher and less safe then you should do some self reflection on your prejudices.

Are you implying there are levels of cannabis use that are zero risk?

GP is not implying anything, they're saying there is a safe level of consumption.
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