Live data from Hacker News

9/11 in Realtime

911realtime.org

121–130 of 160 posts

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#121
post #102

There are so many incredible stories of heroism from this day, but, I will highlight that of Rick Rescorla. [1] After 1993, before 9/11: > Feeling that the authorities lost legitimacy after they failed to respond to his 1990 warnings, he concluded that employees of Morgan Stanley, which was the largest tenant in the World Trade Center, could not rely on first responders in an emergency and needed to empower themselve…

Video interview of him before 9/11: https://vimeo.com/441396612

He predicted it happening so eloquently too. What an outstanding exemplar hero.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. I was a sophomore in high school at the time. Sometime in the late morning, after both towers had been hit and it was clear that it was a terrorist attack, all the classroom TVs were turned on and tuned to the news. I distinctly recall the palpable fear and fury. A fellow student said to me, in a fit of gallows humor, "Get your gun, son. We're going to war." It did feel as though there was some legitimacy…

I still think the initial campaign in Afghanistan was not a mistake. But I think after that, we let the military continue running the show there for way too long and never took the diplomatic mission seriously enough.

You can't change the soul of a people by force or even by diplomacy. If you look at every nation whose culture reformed after, say, losing in WW2, their behavior during and leading up to that war was relatively different from their norms. Germany's genocidal imperialism was a result of the first world war and the terms of the treaty which ended it. Japan turned imperialist because European colonialism made them decide it was either become an imperial power or get swallowed up. Both nations could revert to relative normalcy after the war.

Afghanistan has been a tyrannical theocracy that uses religion to treat its citizens like dirt while being repeatedly invaded by outsiders for damn near eight hundred years. There is no fixing that, especially not in a couple of decades.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think I didn't know / read about it at the time? All the comments here mentioning the neoconservative desire for regime change in Iraq predating 9/11 seem to imply that it was an obscure thing that people weren't very aware of at the time. But that isn't true at all. It was broadly understood and frequently discussed. It's just that people were so generally scared, pissed off, and ready for vengeance a…

Hi. I figured you did know / read about it at the time, actually. I think we have the same viewpoint. I was just using your insightful comment to encourage other folks to read about PNAC for historical context. I don't want anyone to pretend to forget, or younger folks not to know, what got us into the last 20 years of forever war.

Fair!

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#124
The US was so complacent in their idea that nobody would ever attack them that even commentators live on air speculated that some sort of navigation error might have caused it. Even after the second plane hit.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#125
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember talking about PNAC at a debate session of all things in high school. Our debate club was pretty big and well known in our school The teachers that ran it shut me down, saying I was peddling conspiracy theories about PNAC influence and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this was 2008/2009. I'm still, based on research I've done since, convinced that PNAC had a huge influence on George W. Bush and Dick Cheney…

You were absolutely correct; it was as close as possible to publishing a manifesto saying "here's how we're going to launch a war in the middle east" and then doing it as you'll ever see. The same clearly identifiable people were involved all over the place.

Exactly. PNAC wasn't conspiracy theory at all. It wasn't even an "open secret": They had a website, the signatories were public, many of the signatories were in the Bush W. administration. PNAC was discussed often on all the talking head political shows. It became the plan after 9/11.

I think some people a decade or so later thought it was a conspiracy theory because they thought it implied 9/11 was done, or allowed to happen, on purpose in order to begin the regime changes outlined in the plan.

But with PNAC this was their world view and plan, and 9/11 allowed them to move forward. Wrong plan, right time.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#126
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The classic Macintosh desktop is also very well done Two things, in my opinion: trying to be whimsical and "fun" for such a grave topic is disrespectful, and I don't understand what value appropriating Apple's logo and the "finder face" in the corner add to the 9/11 retrospective experience So, fine, maybe I'm just not happy-go-lucky enough to appreciate why this needs to be a classic Macintosh theme, but I am 100%…

IMO this doesn’t seem disrespectful, more like an attempt at authenticity. For those who used computers at that time, it will remind them of what it was like, and for younger people, it helps communicate the era (before you were born, but post-GUI) that 9/11 happened in.

>IMO this doesn’t seem disrespectful, more like an attempt at authenticity. For those who used computers at that time, it will remind them of what it was like, and for younger people, it helps communicate the era (before you were born, but post-GUI) that 9/11 happened in.

I mostly agree with you. However, I visited Las Vegas and stayed at the New York, New York casino hotel a few months after the towers came down and noted the "memorials" people put up on the outside of the casino. Which, as a native NYer who worked across the street from the WTC (and walked through it pretty much every work day for many years beyond that) for more than three years, really pissed me off even though I realized that people wanted to show their support -- I found it a disgusting display.

I still live in NYC and to this day I avoid the area around ground zero whenever I can. Not because I'm afraid, but because it's still painful to think about all those dead people in a place that was so familiar to me.

As such, I understand GP's feelings. The events of that day shouldn't be made light of given all the innocent people (and not just in NYC, but in Washington, DC and Shanksville, PA as well) who died needlessly. And each of us processes/deals with that differently.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#127
It's a little shocking how different the pre-9/11 mindset was. At 9:07am on CNN, the reporter speculates that perhaps there was an issue with electronic navigation equipment that would have led two planes to hit the towers.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#128

The US was so complacent in their idea that nobody would ever attack them that even commentators live on air speculated that some sort of navigation error might have caused it. Even after the second plane hit.

> The US was so complacent in their idea that nobody would ever attack them

I don't think that's true. There was an attempt to bring down the WTC in 1993 after all!

Authorities were taken by surprise by the method of attack. Hardly surprising since it hadn't been done before. Up until that point a hijacked flight almost always meant a ransom attempt, so you didn't shoot the plane down, you got them to land and began negotiations.

It's really easy to look back in hindsight and say authorities should have done X but there really was a great deal of uncertainty. It's not even clear what could have been done about the second plane.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#129
post #24

Ugh, once was enough for me. Remembering it is important, reliving it is too much. This quote from Lincoln is pretty pertinent to some things that have happened since: > At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we…

[dead]

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#130
post #7

This stuff is so difficult for me to watch again, I was a senior in HS. Reading IRC logs from back then is also really interesting. And Nanog had a really interesting slideshow/powerpoint deep dive on the infrastructure outages that occurred. And of course the SomethingAwful thread that's been posted before. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7990991 RE: this specific site.. interesting UX/UI choice. I was hoping I…

I always thought the leaked pages from 9/11 were an interesting way of viewing the timeline. Starts with a lot of business messages, some sexting, and some automated IT messages.[1]

The at 8:46 you see the first sign of something wrong, a smattering of errors about how the Cantor Fitzgerald API was down, and the butterfly effect the outage had on other systems. The computers were chatting about how something was wrong ahead of any people.

[1] https://911.wikileaks.org/files/messages_2001_09_11-08_45_20...

Post reply on HN