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25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

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Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#121

Post by civiloid »

bitsandboots wrote: post #105

As an enthusiast but not an expert nor a person with unlimited time and money, I found that while hitting 1gb/s LAN on ethernet is easy, moving up to 10gb/s has been hard. I have 2 networking cards and a router in between them, all 10gb capable. Yet, it's really hard to get them to do that. I started with reliably getting 2.5gb/s and managed to move up to 5gb/s through some tweaks, but actually getting the full value…

I think about these headaches as extra fun :)

But about your problem - cards manage to negotiate 5 Gbps, or even negotiation fails? If it's the latter, then it might be cables.

Overall, for me, it works to simplify the network as much as possible and first achieve results on a direct connection to the router when it's nearby and then add more and more.

Oh, and also measure as much as possible (that's why I'm sad about the state of system metrics on OSX, for example)

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#122

Post by tgtweak »

shrubble wrote: post #49
tgtweak wrote: post #20

Recently moved up to 3gbps bidirectional and had a hell of a time getting 3gbps even with 10gbps network card directly into the 10gbps port on the ISP-provided modem. In addition to this, there are very few services that will actually feed you data at 3gbps. Steam - ~280MB/s (2.2gbps) Battle.net launcher - ~140MB/s (1.1gbps) 25GB Torrent with 1000+ seeders - ~70MB/s (~560mbps) 2GB iso from github - ~80MB/s (~650mbps)…

Not sure what you see, but I always multiply transfers times 10 to estimate bandwidth, since there is some overhead in the TCP/IP protocol. So 280MB/s I would estimate being about 2.8gbps...

I think ethernet (1500mtu standard) has about 30 bytes of packet routing information per (max) 1500 bytes of data. That works out to 2% minimum. On smaller data packets (less than 1.5kb) it would be a much higher percentage. TLS on top of that, once you're out of the handshake, is about 40 bytes. those 40 bytes would be inside that 1500 window. Assuming 1460 bytes of data (best case) with 40 bytes of TLS and 30 bytes of ethernet overhead - that's up to ~5%.

There maybe further overhead when that packet gets to your router/modem and out to your ISP, and their switches, consider that there's likely another wrapped header on there accounting for 30 more bytes and possibly causing a packet to get split into two smaller ones. I think 10% would be the highest "data rate" vs "port rate" overhead you'd see, without involving a VPN or complex network.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#123

Post by hinkley »

rconti wrote: post #8
candiddevmike wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run a website off a cellular connection, you don't need fiber for that. The pendulum has never left decentralized from a tech standpoint, folks are just too lazy. Home computer ownership is tanking, millennials were probably the last "power user" generation, and there's just no major interest in self hosting with the convenience of cloud. Even among tech professionals like HN.

I think the pendulum DID swing, as The Cloud became more popular and connections became radically asymmetric with very slow upload.

The story with the Cloud is that everything is distributed. The facts on the ground are that everything is more consolidated than it has ever been, mostly into 3 companies, and dozens of datacenters each.

I don't think the Internet has been this small in that respect since the early 90's.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#124

Post by thefz »

I have been on 7Mbps / 1Mbps until 2021. Moved in with GF, she had 100Mbps ADSL which blew my mind. Now we have 2.5Gbps FTTH and I feel blessed. I'm moving to a slightly remote place soon which has 200Mbps FWA, and still it blows my mind. I can't imagine having 25Gbps at home. Insane.

Downloads matter up to an extent. What still gives me day 1 shivers is 600Mbps upload after years at 1, and sub-10ms latency.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#125

Post by robbiet480 »

zamadatix wrote: post #118
robbiet480 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one [0] via a group buy on the 8311 Discord [1]. The instructions for use are at [2]. [0]: https://ecin.ca/custom-xgs-pon-sfp-stick-module-xgspon-ont-w... [1]: https://discord.gg/8311-886329492438671420 [2]: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1UIAgtxkImgFRwyaGDGtI...

Dear lord, that is the gnarliest looking SFP I've ever seen. Thanks for the links, this looks great!

It's a full ARM stack in there. Can even SSH and telnet to it for a real shell, and it runs a web interface.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#126

Post by avidiax »

neals wrote: post #63

I'm a proud owner of a 1 Gbit/s fiber connection with a 100 Mbit (wired) network in my house. I want to upgrade it to match, but I don't want to go through the effort because I never run into download times for anything.

I have 10gbit service, 1gb internal network. So like you, but 1 generation forward.

I don't usually saturate 1gbps, but I definitely saturate 100mbps with XBOX downloads, any cloud provider, torrents, etc.

You could probably pull your old cables fairly easily. Attach two wire pull tapes or strings to the old cable, pull the old cable out with plenty of wire pulling lubricant, and then use one tape/string to pull a Cat 7, leaving a spare for mistakes or additional pulls.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#127

Post by thefz »

satvikpendem wrote: post #48

These kinds of speeds are available in Switzerland because their laws state that any fiber laid down must be usable by competitors, so that ISPs must compete on service alone. I wish we had that in other countries as well.

> These kinds of speeds are available in Switzerland because their laws state that any fiber laid down must be usable by competitors, so that ISPs must compete on service alone. I wish we had that in other countries as well.

In Italy, nobody would lay fiber to stunt the competition.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#128

Post by GuB-42 »

The hardest part, I think, is making use of that speed.

25 GBps is about the sequential speed of a decent NVMe SSD, and much faster than anything SATA.

It is also faster than what a CPU can handle for all but the most basic of processing. Working at GBytes/s speeds require serious performance considerations when coding, often involving working with assembly, SIMD, etc... Things like the TCP stack start being a bottleneck at this point.

There is also a limit on how fast you can consume content. 25 GBit/s is about 4k@120Hz uncompressed video.

And remember that both ends need to handle the bandwidth.

Doing something useful with the full bandwidth is a challenge in itself. Running a server for many users is the most probable use case, but you need a beefy machine, maybe several to be able to serve at such speed. You need to find enough users too.

I am not saying that getting 25 Gbit/s at home is a bad thing, it is a technical achievement and I am all for it. But I feel like finding an application that can saturate that kind of bandwidth is like a continuation to the challenge. Maybe something to do with gaming or VR.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#129

Post by thefz »

ipqk wrote: post #54
satvikpendem wrote: post #48

These kinds of speeds are available in Switzerland because their laws state that any fiber laid down must be usable by competitors, so that ISPs must compete on service alone. I wish we had that in other countries as well.

But then who pays for laying down the fiber? What company would want to pay that cost when others can use it?

Usually there's a separation between transport (physical) and the service (billing and so on). Not the same companies. At least, in Italy there is.

It's the same for power, one or two companies lay the cable, myriad others sell the service.

Re: 25 Gbit/s at home, part 1

#130

Post by avidiax »

supergeek wrote: post #58
tgtweak wrote: post #20

Recently moved up to 3gbps bidirectional and had a hell of a time getting 3gbps even with 10gbps network card directly into the 10gbps port on the ISP-provided modem. In addition to this, there are very few services that will actually feed you data at 3gbps. Steam - ~280MB/s (2.2gbps) Battle.net launcher - ~140MB/s (1.1gbps) 25GB Torrent with 1000+ seeders - ~70MB/s (~560mbps) 2GB iso from github - ~80MB/s (~650mbps)…

The bigger benefit of all of that bandwidth is going to be multiple users. If you work from home and have a big family, or just live with a few roommates you're going to be seeing huge quality of service improvements from one person not being able to tank the whole connection.

Yes, this is why I went with the medium 10gbps package from Init7, with only a 1gbps internal network. Each port is 100% independent bandwidth-wise, and maybe I'll eventually add a 2.5gbps adapter on a suitable host.
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