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StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

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Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#121

Post by doctorpangloss »

danpalmer wrote: post #3

How does this relate to the technology that Improbable[^0] have built? I gather that their core tech is a massively distributed object graph designed to support the sort of interactions necessary for an MMO game to operate a global instance rather than shard worlds. Improbable seem to have gone a bit... off the rails(?) in recent years, diving into Web3, metaverse, and defence contracting, but I assume the core tech…

Unity ECS, which should really be called Unity “2”, sort of obsoleted Improbable’s approach. It is a base on which massive MMOs can be built correctly without the R&D cost of, well, inventing your own ECS architecture.

I don’t know if their Unreal offering is comparable to what they were doing with unreal.

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#122

Post by hwillis »

lolinder wrote: post #82
hwillis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Star Citizen is trying to handle physics for objects in stations/planets/ships, debris, asteroids etc. A couple orders of magnitude more objects, I think. Note that I don't play or follow either game, but I think you're making an unreasonable comparison.

I'm only referencing EVE because OP did, but I don't think the comparison is unreasonable: using a simpler architecture doesn't mean you don't use beefy machines and write your code in C instead of Stackless Python to get better performance in your physics simulations. It just means that instead of being overly clever in your network infrastructure from the get go, you pick something simple that works and iterate fro…

That doesn't work. The biggest battle ever in EVE online[1] had 2,670 players in a single system. The server is chugging through movement/actions/collisions for a few thousand objects, almost all of them not touching and just doing raycasts.

Star Citizen seems to have 100k+ entities per system[2], some with extremely complex collision (eg player models, ship interiors), many of them interacting with each other on each timestep, probably very few of them sleeping.

You can't fix that with faster processors. All those updates trying to go out to players, all subject to checks, all needing updates. It's not in the same class of difficulty.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_B-R5RB [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/qbqv7v/heaps_m...

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#123

Post by dang »

RNAlfons wrote: post #36
BowBun wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you built anything comparable? It's in alpha, making performance/presentation comments seems really out of place. If you were well-informed on the project, you would know that they intentionally put performance optimizations on the backburner, because optimizing tech they intended to replace is not a good use of time. Besides, in the last 6 months performance has drastically improved, as anyone that actually pla…

Do I have to build something comparable to be able to comment on the performance issues I have witnessed? I don't think so. Do I have to accept all those excuses, which like those pictures of ships never run low in this company, to comment on the performance? I don't think so. They promise a lot. They don't deliver. They break things which were already working and I'm still waiting. Those are clear signs of terrible…

Hey, please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Your reply here is a noticeable drop hellward, and that's what we're trying to avoid here!

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#124

Post by dang »

BowBun wrote: post #53
RNAlfons wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I have to build something comparable to be able to comment on the performance issues I have witnessed? I don't think so. Do I have to accept all those excuses, which like those pictures of ships never run low in this company, to comment on the performance? I don't think so. They promise a lot. They don't deliver. They break things which were already working and I'm still waiting. Those are clear signs of terrible…

[flagged]

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#125

Post by netule »

mrguyorama wrote: post #117
netule wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the reason I insta-backed in October of 2012 but I haven't heard a status update in years.

Did you watch the kickstarter video? It was so clear that they did not have a good plan to achieve their goals, and very obvious Chris was obsessed with extremely minor technical details that didn't matter. I loved the Wing Commander games, but they had people in charge who could actually direct a project. Chris Roberts can't get out of his own head. The video was a clear indication that he was going to ruin it.

I backed via RSI before the Kickstarter went live.

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#126

Post by chrisjj »

BowBun wrote: post #26
RNAlfons wrote: post #9

Judging from the games performance, this looks probably better than what their dev team has.

Have you built anything comparable? It's in alpha, making performance/presentation comments seems really out of place. If you were well-informed on the project, you would know that they intentionally put performance optimizations on the backburner, because optimizing tech they intended to replace is not a good use of time. Besides, in the last 6 months performance has drastically improved, as anyone that actually pla…

Reminds me of the film director dismissing the view of a film critic who had never made a film in his entire life...

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#127

Post by dotnet00 »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #106
jcfrei wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never played Star Citizen myself but follow the development closely. From my understanding it's the only one (of the ones you mentioned) that simulates actual planets, orbits and has seamless transitions from space down to the pavement of a city.

You have to watch closely and find the situations, and yeah Elite has this limiting unrealistic physics, but you have orbital mechanics you can even watch given the right system and patience, and you also can seamlessly transition from space down to planet, just systems are always jumps.

Plus, afaik Star Citizen is the only other game out there that has an equivalent of the "flight assist off" model (that is, has the option of allowing a spaceship to be flown more like a spaceship than a plane).

That toggle adds so much depth and skill to combat in Elite, it's a shame it isn't a more common thing in space games (also a shame that Elite itself doesn't really take advantage of it).

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#128

Post by [deleted] »

password-234 wrote: post #98
rideontime wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it during one of their free play weekends. The first time I rode an elevator to the hangar, it ejected me through the wall, breaking my legs and forcing me to crawl to a medbay before I could do anything else.

Curious, not saying its your fault but did you have the game installed on Nvme/ssd? On a standard HDD even with high r/w speeds the game is borderline unplayable. Also free fly weekends are when the game is at its worst, the servers are bought to its knees. Again, no fault to the player and its completely on CIG but its a shame that a lot of players never get to see the game in its best light because free fly is a ni…

[deleted]

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#129

Post by hutzlibu »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #103
silentsanctuary wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many (I would have guessed most) Star Citizen players are long time players of these other games! What SC offers just isn't replicated by anyone yet, but you can be sure that players of this genre keep an eye on the horizon for what other projects might be offering, on a quite regular basis.

Given the development time and effort required to get SC to its current state, it’s hard to see another game getting close to it.

There is such a thing as developement hell. Meaning lots of effort, but not much progress when certain layers became a mess. The latest Duke Nukem game for example was developed for 10 years (I think) and then abandoned and never released.

And I follow SC just from the outside, but at least partially, I get that impression. So sure, shiny new ships are coming out. But the game itself does not seem to get much more stable and .. playable.

Re: StarCitizen Server Meshing Architecture

#130

Post by chrisjj »

password-234 wrote: post #98
rideontime wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it during one of their free play weekends. The first time I rode an elevator to the hangar, it ejected me through the wall, breaking my legs and forcing me to crawl to a medbay before I could do anything else.

Curious, not saying its your fault but did you have the game installed on Nvme/ssd? On a standard HDD even with high r/w speeds the game is borderline unplayable. Also free fly weekends are when the game is at its worst, the servers are bought to its knees. Again, no fault to the player and its completely on CIG but its a shame that a lot of players never get to see the game in its best light because free fly is a ni…

How has ejecting through a wall got anything to do with server load??
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