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The OpenTF Manifesto

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Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#121

Post by busterarm »

twunde wrote: post #120
busterarm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely missing it. If you are running Nomad as your orchestrator, because of the tight integrations you are almost certainly running vault for secrets and consul for service discovery/service mesh. The ecosystem of the three is the competitor to K8s. s/ someone who runs both ecosystems at scale.

While the Nomad stack is a direct competitor to k8s, Consul and Vault are both heavily used alongside k8s. In fact, Consul had features that were only for k8s the last time I checked

[flagged]

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#122

Post by maccard »

rwmj wrote: post #105
cies wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Linus and other believed GPLv2 was fine and the improvements of GPLv3 did not outweigh the potential problems introduced by it. It never came to a point where all authors were asked to agree, or sign away their ownership.

We changed the license[1] of a project which had 10 contributors, and we got every single one of them to do an Acked-by (by email) which took some weeks. That was on the advice of our lawyers. Can't imagine the impossible hassle of doing the same for something like Linux. [1] https://gitlab.com/nbdkit/nbdkit/-/commit/952ffe0fc7685ea775...

Can't speak for Linux, but got a few projects I've contributed to I've had to sign a CLA which negates that problem (but causes the one in this thread)

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#123

Post by aldarisbm »

linuxdude314 wrote: post #64
brikis98 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that a fork hurts everyone. Imagine a future CTO trying to pick the IaC tools for their company. They see Terraform as an option, but then learn there are multiple forks, licensing questions, and a big battle happening in the community. What do they do? They are now way more likely to pick a different tool that is genuinely open source. The same is true of every dev considering where to build their caree…

I doubt that’s what would happen if they could afford a license from Hashicorp. Avoiding proprietary licenses has its place but if you aren’t using terraform to build a product this really shouldn’t impact you much.

Shouldnt impact you much. _yet_

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#125

Post by bloopernova »

If any Hashicorp people are reading, can you please tell your middle and senior management that this decision has deeply soured my entire DevOps cohort on continuing to use Terraform in the future.

We're already exploring alternatives. Future client projects may not use Terraform at all.

Languages and frameworks must remain open or they will wither and die.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#126

Post by diarrhea »

bcantrill wrote: post #89

We at Oxide were honored to be asked to add our name to OpenTF Manifesto. Our statement: At Oxide, our vision has been that on-premises infrastructure is deserving of a system consisting of both hardware and software, at once integrated and open. Ensuring Terraform users can easily deploy to Oxide has been essential for realizing this vision: we want customers of an Oxide rack to be able to use the tools that they kn…

Just scrolled through your open job postings, and the Control Plane opening is jaw-droppingly interesting. Sounds like a marvelous mission you're on. I'm wishing you all the best and will make sure to check back in with Oxide's progress!

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#127

Post by rank0 »

fidotron wrote: post #110

The weaponisation of open source by the cloud vendors combined with devops culture encouraging only paying for operations and commoditising development is going to lead to constant pointless migrations of this kind (such as Docker/podman etc.) Devops people need to find a viable way to reward the developers of the tools they make a living from operating. Failing that they will wake up finding no one is willing to mak…

I actually love the weaponization of OSS. It eats away at the technical gap between proprietary systems and their FOSS equivalents. See elasticsearch + openAI (although open models are still quite far behind)

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#129

Post by pcthrowaway »

busterarm wrote: post #111
bastardoperator wrote: post #82

Ask Roblox employees how they feel about Hashicorp products. Terraform is probably the most solid product they have seconded by vault, but after hearing the consul and nomad horror stories, I don't think I could take their products seriously ever, not when kubernetes is setting right there.

> not when kubernetes is setting right there. Enjoy spending the rest of your life trying to get etcd to cooperate. If you think operating Kubernetes at scale is a cakewalk, you don't have the scale problems you think you do. I'll take consul over etcd ten million times out of ten.

Realistically you're either deploying consul on top of 1-N kubernetes clusters, or Nomad.

If deploying on kubernetes, you now have all the problems that come with kubernetes, plus additional problems of trying to get consul working.

I spent a week just trying to stand up a federated multi-datacenter deployment of consul on EKS before my company decided it was too much hassle

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#130

Post by robbintt »

mousetree wrote: post #128

As a regular end-user of Terraform, what difference does BSL vs MPL make to me? From reading this article it seems not very much? Perhaps I'm misreading this.

It will affect categories of business users (programmers) who currently embrace terraform: amazon, google, microsoft, oracle, alibaba cloud.

Like it or not, cohorts of engineering organizations like the above (cloud providers) have a very outsized weight and already have contender products they can choose to vigorously fund tomorrow.

From the article:

The license does not allow you to use Terraform if you meet both of the following conditions: You are building a product that is competitive with HashiCorp. You embed or host Terraform in your product.

My $0.02: the management of hashicorp is following a stupid trend and should have thought about their customers more.

It will come out to what lawyers think, I guess. Lawyers usually say no to things with poorly established precedent.

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