From a comment on that site, it seems only some models manuals are free.
Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
121–130 of 217 posts
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your numbers are completely wrong. Zero has a bike for $12k https://zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-fx and BMW sells bikes that go well into the $20k ranges. You can get a Surron for under $4k, but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. I do agree with the general premise, that electric is more expensive. There needs to be more competition to drive prices down like is happening for cars.
You can get a "deathwish" scooter from Alibaba that can go 55mph for $3000 also. The problem is that the electric motorcycle market isn't big enough to enjoy efficiencies of scale, so the only ones that exist cater to the wealthy/luxury clients. The value proposition for motorcycles is really not as impressive either. The instant electric torque is more of a safety issue on bikes, because you can already trivially po…
I think the biggest issue with electric motorbikes is infrastructure because, at least from what I see, motorbikes aren't used the same way cars are.
I think they should work great for commuting, if you don't live too far away. But then, people would want to use the bike for other things, too, like going on road trips.
And that's where it hurts. You usually don't take road trips on the main highways because it's boring as hell. You'll take smaller roads, which often don't yet have any reasonable charging infrastructure. Combined with the shorter ranges, nobody is really going to risk it, so they'll just buy a gas bike. Hell, even with my gas bike's tank which is on larger side (19.5 liters), I sometimes have to cart around "safety gas", which I've had to use once. And no, it's not a dirt bike or anything, the only time it went off the asphalt was to go inside a hotel yard.
I think this is the reason why, at least where I live in Europe, you see next to no "serious" electric bikes, but practically all smaller ones are now electric: these bikes don't do anything apart commuting anyway, so electric is great for that.
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Belts are less maintenance intensive than shaft drives. A shaft drive needs an oil change every 10,000 miles. A belt needs a change every 60,000 miles or so, depending on storage condtions. The disadvantages of belts are efficiency (especially compared to chains), off road durability and trailside serviceability.
I might just be a bad bike parent, but, my current shaft drive bike has ~42,000 miles on it. It had the shaft-oil replaced once at 800 miles (per manual, break in period). My bike has been rock-fucking-solid. Its been in the shop once for a real break in 16 years for a busted fuel line. (not including tires and engine oil changes). Its really hard for me to believe another bike could be as reliable.
I'm too lazy to grab my Honda's manual to check, but I'm pretty sure the recommended shaft oil change interval is way more than 10k miles. I'm thinking 48k km, which something like 30k mi.
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#124Good move, but another thing this brand does is charge you a monthly subscription to unlock the full battery range on your bike. If you don’t pay, you lug around a dead weight extra battery you cannot access. Overall this brand is notoriously unfriendly to consumers.
I am not disagreeing with you - I believe that you should be able to use something you bought however you wish - but I think it is worth noting that the lower you allow depth of discharge, the more cycles you can squeeze out of a pack. So it’s not dead weight per se, its trading weight and range for pack longevity, which equates to economy over the life of the motorcycle.
Eh, no it's not. It's getting a monthly fee out of what could be a button or switch, a monthly fee that could be just an unpaid, free to use feature of the bike.
This is some serious "c-suite message to help you fall asleep at night territory".
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#125Off topic, but does anyone make simple electric motorcycles? You know, a frame, battery, motor, etc., but without a connected app and all the goo that comes with it.
They have a different name in the US, but in Germany the bike is called tinbot Esum pro. I am very satisfied. Have driven over 3000km in half a year. No issues so far. They aren't powerful but still fun to drive. Coming from a Kawasaki Z900 which was to expensive for me to justify. You can buy a tinbot for 5000€ brand new. They have a range of 80 km full throttle in the summer and about 60 km in the winter.
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#126I’ve been wanting an electric motorcycle for years. But every time I look at the pricing I just can’t justify it. An entry level electric bike for $25k or a top of the line BMW for $18k. It’s just not even a comparison.
For $25k I would buy an Arcimoto Roadster (3 wheels), which unfortunately isn't available in the EU, and there are no similar equivalents (2 spaced front wheels, electric, not bicycle sized) over here. Patiently waiting for a EU distributor to appear.
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is energica really the leader in electric motorcycle sales? I couldnt find any stats but Ive definitely seen some zero bikes on the road and Ive never seen an energica in person
They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of the motorcycle and the weight of the passenger/s they are extemely efficient, having the whole passenger vehicles switch to motorcycles would be even better than have them switch to 3000 pounds EVs. The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfor…
Following your thought process, even better is everyone on bikes. That’s what is happening slowly in many developed cities.
Everyone on a motorcycle (mostly scooters) is what you have in southeast Asia. And true, it allows much higher densities than US highways packed with cars, but the price is reduced confort and security… Hard to make people accept that nowadays.
To give a contrarian view, I would happily become an electric bike customer. I think it is a great idea to apply electric motors to motorcycles : - Torque is usable at low speeds. To have the same experience in a ICE bike require a huge and comparably heavy motor, like the triumph speed triple or a Harley-Davidson. - Range is still a bit low but not far from the 250km/150miles an ICE bike can have. By the way, most bikers I know, myself included, have to stop before reaching such distances. Confort makes it hard to do more. - Speaking of confort, less noise and vibrations is a huge plus
Price is still high bit it will reduce. We also can hope for range increases too [1]. My main concern currently is charging time, even with fast charging, 40min is still a bit too much for me, and I hope that progress will be made in this area (with 800v architecture maybe?)
[1]: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2023-energica-...
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jesus that is brutal. A dealer tool for bleeding abs? I’m holding onto my KLR forever apparently.
Yep, you can bleed it physically but the system will refuse to re-activate the ABS until you trigger something in the ROM. Absolutely insane. You can't get even order the tool directly from Triumph to do it because you need to be some kind of verified auto mechanic for them. Even the oil change was a pain. I had to quite literally crush the dealer oil filter and break it off in pieces with a pipe wrench because it wa…
> Do yourself a favor and avoid Euro motorcycles.
I was considering triumph as my first bike but after reading this its a hard pass.
To your knowledge are there any brands known for being DIY friendly on current models (read being able to provide/sell offline service manuals)?
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
The $200/hr service charge most european motorcycle dealers charge. There are two things I can't do myself. Particularly, bleeding the ABS (which requires the dealer tool) and re-shimming the engine (which also requires a dealer tool). My local stealership wants exactly $200/hr for every service. An oil change for my motorcycle is $300, a brake job is $650. Mind you parts for these jobs are in the mid-to-low XX's. It…
> 6-8 hours worth of work is insane. I can do it in a few hours So what is “a few hours”?
Depends on the bike. On a single or p-twin I could knock it out in under 90 minutes in my garage.
Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, you can bleed it physically but the system will refuse to re-activate the ABS until you trigger something in the ROM. Absolutely insane. You can't get even order the tool directly from Triumph to do it because you need to be some kind of verified auto mechanic for them. Even the oil change was a pain. I had to quite literally crush the dealer oil filter and break it off in pieces with a pipe wrench because it wa…
> Do yourself a favor and avoid Euro motorcycles. I was considering triumph as my first bike but after reading this its a hard pass. To your knowledge are there any brands known for being DIY friendly on current models (read being able to provide/sell offline service manuals)?
Honda is pretty decent. Suzuki doesn't sell service data but the info you need is readily available from Clymer. Royal Enfield is fantastic for service data.