Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists • Hacker News Board

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#121

Post by jyscao » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

>Having managed over 100+ people, I can say that on average the people from better institutions are better employees - even though I have managed amazing people without college degrees and bad people with amazing degrees.

There is a better method for selecting candidates: IQ testing. For better or worse, that's illegal. In fact college degrees are merely proxies for the lack of IQ data.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#122

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #104

glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

> selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theories on how to interview and triage people, but few approaches beat the cost-benefit of supporting decisions based on a degree from a solid institution. That's... a bullshit argument, and should get called out as bullshit? It's an easy approach, and beats other app…

> In fact, most high achievers are bad fits for most jobs, because their intention is to not be in that job for long.

citation needed. (plot twist, this is not true).

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#123

Post by TrackerFF » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

It is much easier these days to interview for top jobs that would have excluded you 20 years ago, because you went to the wrong schools.

If you're a smart and ambitious student, don't let your alma mater be the deciding factor in your life. It is true, you may have to work much harder than those that can coast on their HYPS-pedigree, but as the saying goes: You can't keep a good man down.

The anxiety of not getting accepted into a top school is mostly a juvenile phenomena.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#124

Post by itoor » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

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Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#125

Post by neilv » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

> Not very different than an Apple product being generally better than a product from some random vendor from Amazon with names like "GREAT TECH" or "SUPER QUALITY PRO".

I think "SUPER QUALITY PRO" almost certainly isn't as good of quality as Apple.

So I disagree with the analogy, when we're talking about people who went to big-name schools vs. everyone else.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#126

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

[deleted]

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#127

Post by dmorse » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

blitzar wrote: post #73

samvher wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in an environment where it really did seem to matter. An organization set up by Harvard folks where other Harvard folks seemed to have advantages in (a) getting in and (b) getting ahead. It wasn't ever really addressed explicitly (though "credentialism" was occasionally mentioned by others as well, I wasn't the only one who noticed). It definitely played a role in my leaving that organization. Edit - I…

I live in a non US country so we can for once have the counterfactual, as for us harvard does not exist. I have worked in an environment where {maths degrees} really did seem to matter. An organization set up by people with {maths degrees} where other people with {maths degrees} seemed to have advantages in (a) getting in and (b) getting ahead. It wasn't ever really addressed explicitly (though "credentialism" was oc…

I agree with this {affinity} theory. I've been working 30+ years since my Physics degree. I learned programming on the job as there were no web sites or YouTube to learn from. I love meeting other Physics majors in the software industry because we can connect with similar stories. I noticed every hiring manager has bias towards candidates with their background. They will prefer people from their home country, their university, their social connections.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#128

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

viburnum wrote: post #5

Every tech company I’ve worked at has been run by Ivy people but all the actual code is written by Cal State graduates and high school dropouts.

This is not true of any FAANG and I've worked for all of them. Go to any of them and you will see that most of the SWEs are some combination of MIT, Cal, Stanford, and tier-1 public schools and top 20 (by US News Report) private schools.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#129

Post by fnordpiglet » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

curiousllama wrote: post #33

fnordpiglet wrote: post #8

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

Most of those university clubs are kinda dumb anyway. It's a country club; you can just join a different one and get the exact same benefit.

Yeah but those dinner rolls are really tasty.

But yes, it’s something I place no value on being able to go to whenever I want. I’d rather join a makerspace, and the people there are a lot more interesting.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#130

Post by agloe_dreams » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #91

> What would happen in schools if we lived in a magical dreamworld? I think the answer is: Each kid gets whatever experiences maximize their potential. That answer sure does sound like the stuff of magical dreamworlds. Whatever experiences maximize their potential is the province of families, not the stuff of society-paid education. It's not that it couldn't be provided by the latter, but the daunting expense means t…

One can argue that this argument is actually what the Soviet Union actually did always. It worked, at least at first. They beat the US to orbit on the back of that despite the US technically having better people. Eventually the US got the game plan in order and got to the moon first but since then the exact argument that the article makes happened. The people in the classroom became the people with the best connections rather than the best abilities.