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Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

cnbc.com

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Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#121

Post by pessimizer »

seanalltogether wrote: post #63
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Ha, in Europe WhatsApp is even used by doctors and teachers to discuss patient/student matters, and even some government offices use it. It's wild how entrenched it is in every aspects of society, from social to business. Goes to show you how far good UX, simplicity and ease of use can take you.

At least in the UK, group messaging over sms was always broken, and sending pictures still costs me extra money. The phone carriers brought it on themselves.

The phone companies aren't bothered. You're the one locked into facebook.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#122

Post by Invictus0 »

dahfizz wrote: post #111
gmd63 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a rule that upon being broken allows the SEC to fine you, which is why they are paying a bunch of money. Are you saying that we should not be able to require banks of a certain size to keep records, so that the highway patrol officers of finance can economically pull you over when you're speeding? Or should we allow everyone to use fuzzbusters effectively making the law pointless?

> Are you saying that we should not be able to require banks of a certain size to keep records No. I'm saying this is just some boring, annoying regulation, and your grandstanding about wanting people to feel bad about breaking laws is misguided.

No it isn't, the regulation is extremely important and helps keep the financial system following the law. The stakes are extremely high and monitoring records is the bare minimum we should be doing to protect ourselves from criminal financial actors.

Every rule is written in blood. We recently saw guys fixing the LIBOR for a tray of leftover sushi. Thankfully we have records of that.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#123

Post by HPsquared »

kolbe wrote: post #120
psychphysic wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have used "Banks fined millions evading regulation with Signal & WhatsApp" News headlines have rules they use to make for shorter sentences. They'd probably write "Banks fined millions, delete records, use E2E apps"

Here's a link to the actual press release: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-149 It makes no mention of evading regulation. This fine is for a failure to retain written communications. Which is impossible to do for some of these communications channels.

Intent is harder to prove.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#124

Post by clairity »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #117
dreamcompiler wrote: post #113

At this point I cannot understand why anybody would use Wells Fargo as their bank. WF has proven repeatedly that they are pretty much the opposite of what everybody thinks a good bank should be. Repeated law violations; repeated screwing-over of their customers. Why are they still in business?

As a WF customer... its lock-in. The amount of work I would need to do to switch banks thanks to bill pay, auto-drafts, etc, is not worth the headache.

now that physical branches are not really a differentiator of big banks, a couple hours of your time spread out over a couple months is totally worth the switch to a credit union in lower fees, better service, and supporting a more local economy.

it's completely, undeniably worth it. unless you're a real big shot (worth millions in assets to the bank) who doesn't have to deal with the dehumanizing aspects of corporate "customer service", there is zero reason to be with anything other than a small local bank/credit union.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#125

Post by duxup »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #113

At this point I cannot understand why anybody would use Wells Fargo as their bank. WF has proven repeatedly that they are pretty much the opposite of what everybody thinks a good bank should be. Repeated law violations; repeated screwing-over of their customers. Why are they still in business?

Especially when in the US there's a whole bunch of great credit unions, smaller banks out there.

I suspect for most consumers they don't know or notice the difference, but I wish they did.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#126

Post by mulmen »

dahfizz wrote: post #105
gmd63 wrote: post #85

"We are pleased to resolve this matter" Nobody should ever be "pleased" with knowingly breaking the law. When will we ever get serious about law enforcement for this type of crime?

Using WhatApp is not a "crime". There were no laws broken. This is just some regulators giving out fines because they can't spy on employee's private messages. If bureaucrats were on my ass about something so stupid, I would be very pleased once the matter was resolved.

I have never been in a situation where my private messages could have been read by my employer. This is because I have always used the provided channels for work-related communication. There is no expectation of privacy in those channels so I do not conduct personal business there.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#127

Post by clsec »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #113

At this point I cannot understand why anybody would use Wells Fargo as their bank. WF has proven repeatedly that they are pretty much the opposite of what everybody thinks a good bank should be. Repeated law violations; repeated screwing-over of their customers. Why are they still in business?

Yep. I've been WF free since the mid-late 90's. They've been at this as long as I've been using a bank (1980).

Credit Unions FTW!

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#128

Post by SteveNuts »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #117
dreamcompiler wrote: post #113

At this point I cannot understand why anybody would use Wells Fargo as their bank. WF has proven repeatedly that they are pretty much the opposite of what everybody thinks a good bank should be. Repeated law violations; repeated screwing-over of their customers. Why are they still in business?

As a WF customer... its lock-in. The amount of work I would need to do to switch banks thanks to bill pay, auto-drafts, etc, is not worth the headache.

I really hate to say it but their app and web interface are way better than my local credit union (who I also have an account with).

That convenience sucks to give up out of principle but it's long overdue in my case.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#129

Post by kolbe »

All the government needs to do to get HN on board with criminalizing encrypted communications is to implicate a bank. Bear in-mind, the SEC didn't find any actual criminal activity here. The banks just failed to retain the conversations that took place by their employees via encrypted channels (a necessary feature of encrypted communication).

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#130

Post by mulmen »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #110

> $549 million Big headline grabbing number. But what % of their quarterly profit is that? Slap on the wrist, I suspect.

Net income for Q2 of 2023 was reported as (this is Wells Fargo...) $4,938,000,000 so $549,000,000 is a little over 10%.

https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/investor-...

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