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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#121

Post by manojlds »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #104
sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

Onshoring is impossible for most countries. TSMC had an annual capital budget of >$50B, there are only like 30 countries with >$100B in total government revenue: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governm...

How many of those countries are going to protect Taiwan?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#122

Post by FirmwareBurner »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #94
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what the US tell NL to do, as we've seen before.

These days are over - they ended with the war in Iraq. In the 80s the US said "Jump!" and western Europe asked "How high?".

You're wrong, your parent is correct. NL government had to block sales of ASML EUV machines to China on the US's request since they didn't want to enable China build advanced chips.

ASML definitely wanted to sell to China to increase their quarterly revenues but couldn't because the US owns the IP for the EUV tech and ASML's EUV light sources are made by CYMER in the US, which ASML bought but they're still under US trade restrictions.

So no, ASML and the NL government have to dance according to the moves dictated by the US gov as they own the keys to EUV tech, not ASML/NL.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#123

Post by Lionga »

oytis wrote: post #83
LeonidasXIV wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: Why fill out PDF forms if you can just send HTML forms and submit them directly to the administration. This is how the Danish system works.

Or just use fax. That's how it works in Germany

But you can only fax during opening hours which are Tuesday 10:00 to 11:15

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#125

Post by js8 »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries.

I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadership (which was created during neoliberal heydays) would do the same across the EU.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#126

Post by oplaadpunt »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #91
NKosmatos wrote: post #82

“…begin construction of the fab in the second half of 2024 with production targeted to begin by the end of 2027”. It’s good to see new fabs in Europe, but I think it’s a bit late and with “old” technology. On the other hand there are many other areas in need of chips that will benefit from this in the coming years.

Modern is better, but many industries are fine with "old" technology. As the pandemic showed, the problem (for industry and mass market consumer electronics) was not Intel/AMD/Nvidia high end chips but chips for washing maschines (had to wait 7 (!) months for a dishwasher b/c Miele had no chips) and cars.

Smaller nodes also do not inherently have better performance for all tasks. They bring performance penalties in some regards, extra costs, and more complexity, which might make something older like 65mm a far better choice

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#127

Post by oplaadpunt »

bluGill wrote: post #108
KingOfCoders wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern is better, but many industries are fine with "old" technology. As the pandemic showed, the problem (for industry and mass market consumer electronics) was not Intel/AMD/Nvidia high end chips but chips for washing maschines (had to wait 7 (!) months for a dishwasher b/c Miele had no chips) and cars.

Is modern really better? If you are waiting on a compile, or running the latest game or - other performance critical task of course it is. However for embedded systems older processes are likely to result in chips that operate longer under harsh conditions and so may be better. It depends on the application. I know where I work we have customers that run our products at -70C and +50C, we can't run a lot of modern chi…

It isn't necessarily, especially if your chip involves some analog or RF design, or must be robust. It is only for increased compute power where the smalles nodes shine

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#128

Post by dontlaugh »

js8 wrote: post #125
KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

Singapore’s economy is also significantly planned, despite the opposite being the common knowledge.

Same with South Korea.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#129

Post by KingOfCoders »

dontlaugh wrote: post #128
js8 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

Singapore’s economy is also significantly planned, despite the opposite being the common knowledge. Same with South Korea.

Also Singapore has 17% corporate tax, compared with 12.5% in Ireland.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#130

Post by sparrowInHand »

rjzzleep wrote: post #75
sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

If there was a spark of integrity left, a whole generation would step back from there posts in lock and file out of the building. Not a grey hair to be found after the whole Neo-Lib-Con episode.
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