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Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

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Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#121

Post by ungruntled »

I have their 13in grayscale e-ink device. I assume the underlying tech is similar. What they carefully filter out is the significant ghosting of the device that builds up immediately and needs to be cleared with a button on the monitor. The contrast is also poor and blends with ghosted content so you need more time to tell what’s real or junk pixels. The front light on the device is still required in most lighting situations unless you are in sunlight. Glare from non overhead lighting is very bad and worsened by the lack of a backlight. Content on significant portions of the page will flicker as you move your mouse and corrupt content already displayed unless you press the clear button. Content will flicker on many settings even without any movement. Even on the lowest refresh rate the device is still not really usable. I originally bought this to help with eye strain, but the poor visibility of content, flickering, and clearing action make it substantially worse than a regular monitor.

Edit: I’d also add that the device emits a coil whine when the display is updating like when moving mouse. Its audible enough to hear over my wall AC unit.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#122

Post by sisve »

bovermyer wrote: post #4

I'm curious about the refresh rate. From the video, it appears to be fast for an e-ink display. However, it still seems to be slower than what I'd be comfortable watching a video with. The other thing I'm curious about is the manufacturer. They seem to have a black-and-white version already available. Has anyone ever tried it?

Yes, i have the gray-scale version of this. Its really really good. You do not want to watch a movie on it.but if you need to see a 30 sec movie to understand something it ok. The biggest problem with the greyscale is how much color has to say on everything. Its so hard to see terminal errors etc. Yes you can customize a lot. And I do have use custom vs code themes and terminal themes. Buti need to switch each day when i work. Because of some website where darkmode is default or similar. Darkmode is a disaster for a greyscale eink monitor.

Im def going to buy this device. Have a rm2 and the 13" dasung screen also. I would def recommend the manufacturer

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#123

Post by layer8 »

chaosprint wrote: post #70

I owned lots of E-ink devices. I got a Boox Mira 13 inch screen and it works well on both Mac/Windows. On Windows I can even have some touchscreen interaction. But I have to warn you!!!! that your mouse is not going to work as it feels very different. So I use it only to read news, reply emails and messages. Coding, video, and gaming would be impossible! The same thing would 100% go to this new display. I have also g…

The grayscale displays also have higher contrast (still low overall) compared to the color displays.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#124

Post by layer8 »

rockostrich wrote: post #51
packetlost wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my coworkers has the grayscale version of that. The refresh rate goes up to maybe 20Hz on "fast mode" which sacrifices quality for speed. It looks pretty good regardless, but IMO the real benefit of these screens is in consuming long-form text content. My ReMarkable 2 has a perfectly fine refresh rate, especially for writing/drawing. Is yours the first gen maybe?

> IMO the real benefit of these screens is in consuming long-form text content. Hard disagree. E-readers already do this and are 2 orders of magnitude cheaper. Long-form text content barely need 1 Hz refresh rates. The real benefit of these screens is being able to use a computer without the associated eye-strain. Most jobs that involve looking at a screen all-day don't really require high refresh rate screens. The m…

> The real benefit of these screens is being able to use a computer without the associated eye-strain.

Depends on your eyes. For my aging eyes e-ink is much too low-contrast. A high-DPI OLED screen on the other hand…

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#125

Post by gnicholas »

rpozarickij wrote: post #118
gnicholas wrote: post #114

Is it me, or are they hiding the price unless you sign up for their email list?

Hm, I still couldn't find the price after signing up for the newsletter.

Yeah, I suspected it was a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement. Probably pricing will be determined based in part on how many people show interest (and how their manufacturing process evolves).

But I've never seen a crowdfunding campaign that had no advertised price — very strange!

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#126

Post by avivo »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #27
Pet_Ant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think eInk will ever be capable of video-like refresh rates. It's had plenty of benefits, but refresh rates may never catch up. I have a secondary monitor dedicated to Slack, Teams, and Outlook. That would be perfect for this as it doesn't update often and the content is mostly static.

This monochrome output claims to have a 60hz refresh rate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds38T8wVuDg

Fascinating, this led to this projects which is pretty interesting. https://www.modos.tech/blog/modos-paper-monitor Seems like a very exciting effort and product but I'm not sure if it's still active.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#127

Post by sisve »

ungruntled wrote: post #121

I have their 13in grayscale e-ink device. I assume the underlying tech is similar. What they carefully filter out is the significant ghosting of the device that builds up immediately and needs to be cleared with a button on the monitor. The contrast is also poor and blends with ghosted content so you need more time to tell what’s real or junk pixels. The front light on the device is still required in most lighting si…

Just wanted to point out as a alternative datapoint thay i havr both 13: and 25" greyscale. And 25 is a much better experience. 13" is just to small. Im happy with 25" and will buy this new with color. I do not have flicker, at least not like you. but you need strong lighting on the screen.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#128

Post by mdp2021 »

23B1 wrote: post #117
chaosprint wrote: post #70

I owned lots of E-ink devices. I got a Boox Mira 13 inch screen and it works well on both Mac/Windows. On Windows I can even have some touchscreen interaction. But I have to warn you!!!! that your mouse is not going to work as it feels very different. So I use it only to read news, reply emails and messages. Coding, video, and gaming would be impossible! The same thing would 100% go to this new display. I have also g…

Have been thinking about one of these for writing. Is it something you recommend for that express purpose? Note: I can't just use an e-ink screen w/keyboard and a simple text editor, I used a handful of specialized writing programs like Scrivener and FinalDraft and often collaborate in Gdocs, so I need something that mirrors the screen of a personal computer unfortunately. My goal is to be able to spend more time out…

You can, but satisfactory text editors on Android can be hard to find.

No issue with a large enough EPD tablet, a BT keyboard, a good text editor, good configuration and your ability to adapt to the system (latency etc.)

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#129

Post by gnicholas »

otachack wrote: post #37

This is really cool. It does make me miss the Pebble watch though as they dove into color e-ink for certain models as well. They seemed way ahead of the time and it's such a shame they couldn't make it through.

Exactly. I recently retired my Pebble, after the battery life was reduced to 1-2 days. I wish there were more watches out there like this. I found the Garmins to be much dimmer, and the Fossil to be poorly laid out for displaying much text (and the UI/UX was awful). I would pay AWU prices for a next-generation Pebble Time Steel, even if only added HR and a few other updates.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#130

Post by mdp2021 »

orbital-decay wrote: post #119
mdp2021 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would EPD be different from LCD natively shipped with anti-glare coating, or selected good matte films for our glass-based displays (e.g. "smartphones")?

It isn't, that's my point. Both fundamentally have the same issues with glare, contrary to the OP claim that EPD is somehow glare-free. It can be mitigated a bit but getting to the glare level of actual paper (essentially zero) is probably not possible without major tradeoffs.

Ok - yes, you said that literally on your original - but then you interpreted as "property of technology" the parallel issue I was proposing.

What I intended to propose was, there may be unexpected glare issue with EPD display instances: you buy an LCD monitor and make sure that the matte coating is satisfactory; you buy a pocket computer and have a selected matte film applied to it; you buy an EPD display and go "it should be more anti-glare".

I said that this is inherent to the outmost layer that the producer chose for the product. To be that glare susceptible is not inherent in EPD as a technology. The product could be shipped at the quality level of good matte products or good matte films, or you could probably fix it with the best matte film available as you do with displays with front glass.

A good matte display (via coating in-factory or via film aftermarket) is not as glare free as paper, but it can come pretty close.

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